Women in the main event

Find it hard to believe there are only 301 women playing in the main event.

BobbyMorton said:

Find it hard to believe there are only 301 women playing in the main event.

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3010000 is still a serious amount of money for the ladies who bought in hope to see a few of them on the final table:top:
I say the ladies will take more than 3010000 out of the tournament what do you reckon?

This represents 3.8% of the field. I have confidence that this number will increase with time. People seem to be disconcerted about this number, and want "fix" it - NOW!! Well, that's just unrealistic as well as impossible.

I don't think that this number is representative of the real percentage of poker playing fields across a broader spectrum of the game. As we are reminded frequently during the ESPN broadcast of the ME, the Moneymaker win was fifteen years ago. That may sound like a long time, but it is about half a generation. Since the wsop is in very early stages of mass popularity (paralleling the existence of online poker), I am not surprised, nor terribly alarmed by the tiny percentage that women represent in the ME field. I'd like to know the participation numbers of smaller field tourneys around the world. That would give a better indication of the popularity of live poker with women. Looking at the participation of what was once the pinnacle of high stakes degen poker tournaments to gauge the popularity of poker with women is probably a very bad move from a statistical analysis point of view.

Teach your kids (boys and girls) to play poker and you will see the percentage of women in the ME represent the percentage of women in the world who play poker - in about twenty years. At the moment, 73% of the participants are US citizens (over 12% are from California alone), but US citizens don't make up 73% of the world's population. Participation in the ME depends a lot more on logistics and bankroll than other more poker related factors.

I would be more concerned (far, far more concerned) about the distribution of the world's wealth between men and women than player participation distribution between men and women in the ME. Other important factors include wealth and technology distribution across countries of the world.

Women's participation in the ME is a very small indication of a small symptom of a gigantic, worldwide, pan-cultural problem. Fix the problem and the symptoms will subside.

I love Maria Ho. She is well spoken, intelligent, and charming. She is a very good poker player and a pleasure to watch/listen to on TV. But on the Main Event Day 3 ESPN broadcast, Norm and Lon were congratulating her on her induction to the Women’s Poker HOF, and Norm mentioned that only 4% of the field in this year’s ME were women. Norm was at the HOF luncheon and noted that this problem was a topic of conversation there.

Then Maria went on to give her/their opinion on the solution to make poker more appealing to women.

The following is my one finger typed transposition of the statements:

“You hear it all the time not only from women, but from even recreational players, they’re having a real tough time, you know, getting comfortable. They feel sometimes like, that pros are out to intimidate them, or make them feel like they don’t belong. And I just think there needs to be a bigger push on behalf of the community as a whole to make it, you know, a safe space for people to learn the game who are just starting out, just who doesn’t (sic)have the benefit of being able to play online, you know, in their own home and get comfortable with all of the logistics that actually are involved with knowing when to check, knowing when to bet, knowing when it’s your turn to act, having people stare you down.”

>Norm then mentions Matt Savage taking about looking at what men are doing in rooms that is inappropriate towards women<

“Yeah, I’m not one to shy away from, you know, a weird or tough situation, but I’ve even felt very uncomfortable, even now, playing for twelve years. I’ve had situations where I’m like, gosh I really don’t want to be here right now.”

I have played live poker dozens if not hundreds of times. I have never seen any men acting inappropriately towards women at the table. On a few occasions, I have seen men acting inappropriately towards men. I have also seen men and women act inappropriately for a social situation in public (at the table). But I have no idea what is being talked about here. Can someone please cite examples?

We are talking about poker here - a game that people play against other people for money. If pros (either sex) are out to intimidate rec players (either sex), I would expect that. At what level of live play are players not being shown the proper way to act? I have witnessed many players learn (sometimes the hard way) how to make bets and checks and raises. The house rules are always catching newcomers at a table. I can’t imagine that any of these comments refer to the WSOP ME.

Am I the problem?

You could be if you have never seen a woman treated inappropriately at a poker table - you are mostly likely not judging inappropriate behavior correctly. I have seen it plenty of types - ranging from disrespectful conversation to actually inappropriate touching. A young man repeatedly put his hand on my leg in an obviously suggestive manner multiple times before I had him ejected from the room.

And men have the nerve to whine about Ladies only tournaments - I find that disgraceful.

I do not know how for other players, but I like watching women play and when they win on good events, I would like Women and Girls to have more in poker and on major events!

in poker all are equal, the cook and the lawyer. but a woman has an advantage.
if she wants, she will pull out of you not only all the chips, but the heart and brains.
we must respect women. they can not be underestimated.
and what we will do without them here on earth. let them always be near and play at the same table. so we will all be calmer)
love women .

dakota-xx said:

You could be if you have never seen a woman treated inappropriately at a poker table - you are mostly likely not judging inappropriate behavior correctly. I have seen it plenty of types - ranging from disrespectful conversation to actually inappropriate touching. A young man repeatedly put his hand on my leg in an obviously suggestive manner multiple times before I had him ejected from the room.

And men have the nerve to whine about Ladies only tournaments - I find that disgraceful.

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That is an unfortunate experience you had. Has this ever happened to you in a different setting? - (of course it has, unfortunately) Was (were) other incident(s) dealt with in a manner better or worse than the poker experience?

So this (harassment, intimidation) happens to women at a poker table, in public, at a rate that is so high that it would keep women from returning to playing poker? This occurs in poker rooms with other people sitting around a dealer and a floor manager feet away and is tolerated to the extent that women who have never been to a poker room know that it is an unsafe place to go? This happens at a rate that surpasses the rate in other public venues that women are willing to brave?

I realize that bad things happen. Society needs to be reassured that these things will not be tolerated, especially in public. I think we have that in the poker rooms in which I have played.

mtl mile end said:

That is an unfortunate experience you had. Has this ever happened to you in a different setting? - (of course it has, unfortunately) Was (were) other incident(s) dealt with in a manner better or worse than the poker experience?

So this (harassment, intimidation) happens to women at a poker table, in public, at a rate that is so high that it would keep women from returning to playing poker? This occurs in poker rooms with other people sitting around a dealer and a floor manager feet away and is tolerated to the extent that women who have never been to a poker room know that it is an unsafe place to go? This happens at a rate that surpasses the rate in other public venues that women are willing to brave?

I realize that bad things happen. Society needs to be reassured that these things will not be tolerated, especially in public. I think we have that in the poker rooms in which I have played.

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It can only take 1 incident to intimidate some women and cause them to not want to play with male poker players again.

Nobody said anything about playing poker being unsafe for women - the word is uncomfortable.

Yes - this type of intimidation definitely happens more in poker rooms than in other public venues - but that is irrelevant as other questions you asked are.

We are only discussing women in poker - not women at concerts, women in libraries or any other types of events or venues.

dakota-xx said:

It can only take 1 incident to intimidate some women and cause them to not want to play with male poker players again.

Nobody said anything about playing poker being unsafe for women - the word is uncomfortable.

Yes - this type of intimidation definitely happens more in poker rooms than in other public venues - but that is irrelevant as other questions you asked are.

We are only discussing women in poker - not women at concerts, women in libraries or any other types of events or venues.

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I think these questions are highly relevant. Especially since the ESPN broadcast of the WSOP ME (in the voice of Maria Ho, one of the most respected women's voices in poker) pointed to exactly the feeling of intimidation at poker rooms as the primary reason why there aren't more women playing live poker.

To test that idea, I want to know what this is and why I've never seen it. Comparing different public venues where similar things occur and women's subsequent reactions is the best way I can think of to simply do that. Do you have another comparison? Do you think this is the primary cause of the lack of women in card rooms?

I am going to stick to poker rooms because that is what this thread is about.

Yes - I agree that it is the primary reason more women don't play poker.

dakota-xx said:

I am going to stick to poker rooms because that is what this thread is about.

Yes - I agree that it is the primary reason more women don't play poker.

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I find this very surprising. As difficult as it would be to attract more women to poker, it would clearly be a waste of time if the goal is to attract them to rooms in which they do not feel welcome.

I can definitely see the intimidation factor come into play for women, at the Main Event (or any big poker tournament). If a woman is not experienced (or even if they are and know what to expect) at a poker table, why would we subject ourselves to a pretty good chance of being intimidated, groped, etc?

Also, Debi has experienced things good and bad in large tournaments and not just once, so I think her thoughts and experiences would likely apply to large majority of women.

mtl mile end said:

I find this very surprising. As difficult as it would be to attract more women to poker, it would clearly be a waste of time if the goal is to attract them to rooms in which they do not feel welcome.

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Maybe 'rules' need to be in place for forms of sexual harassment? And women may feel a little comfort knowing there could be repercussions. Not so sure that would really help to increase numbers to these events immediately, but who knows?!

I think as a whole the women don't show up as "dead money", the ones that are at these events are bad ass players. A lot of the men just have money to join and really shouldn't think they have a chance.

Most of the women I see playing at the big games are ruthless players out for blood. Which is a good thing.

My ex has a great sense of game theory and I was always trying to get her to play, I know she would have excelled. She always had a lot of skill at other games, cards as well as other games.

I love to watch the women play their hands, they seem to know a lot about the game and not afraid to bet.

Roger1960 said:

I think as a whole the women don't show up as "dead money", the ones that are at these events are bad ass players. A lot of the men just have money to join and really shouldn't think they have a chance.

Most of the women I see playing at the big games are ruthless players out for blood. Which is a good thing.

My ex has a great sense of game theory and I was always trying to get her to play, I know she would have excelled. She always had a lot of skill at other games, cards as well as other games.

I love to watch the women play their hands, they seem to know a lot about the game and not afraid to bet.

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I think men AND women have money 'just to join'. Personally, I don't think the money is the entire issue.

dakota-xx said:

You could be if you have never seen a woman treated inappropriately at a poker table - you are mostly likely not judging inappropriate behavior correctly. I have seen it plenty of types - ranging from disrespectful conversation to actually inappropriate touching. A young man repeatedly put his hand on my leg in an obviously suggestive manner multiple times before I had him ejected from the room.

And men have the nerve to whine about Ladies only tournaments - I find that disgraceful.

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Wow, I would have never guessed that someone would do such a thing. Glad you got him thrown out. I would think that there would be some important rules about harassing fellow players, especially the women. Having 5 daughters I am a big advocate for women's rights and their ability to be able to compete in not only poker but in all aspects of work and personal freedom. At present I am a single dad with three still living at home.

women - decorate this world and make it beautiful ...))
without them - it's sad and dangerous to live ..
and let them be more in poker .. I'm just glad to be with them ..)))
:top:

dakota-xx said:

You could be if you have never seen a woman treated inappropriately at a poker table - you are mostly likely not judging inappropriate behavior correctly. I have seen it plenty of types - ranging from disrespectful conversation to actually inappropriate touching. A young man repeatedly put his hand on my leg in an obviously suggestive manner multiple times before I had him ejected from the room.

And men have the nerve to whine about Ladies only tournaments - I find that disgraceful.

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Women are superior in many ways comparing to men when it comes to social interpretation, speaking in generally, so this is not a surprise to me. What is important when it comes to poker, women are socially more intelligent than men and this should basically mean they have a better basis to be better poker players than men.
So Debi, men who act like that, in disrespectful sorts of ways, they strongly believe they are better but the truth is they are not, in fact they are so behind, so i would like to encourage you and other ladies to feel comfortable every time at the poker table because it's your field where you rock

what unpleasant things in poker.
a disgrace for those men who allow themselves to insult a woman in poker and in general.
I do not even consider them men.
I worked 20 years as an operative officer of the criminal police, and I know very well that women in some aspects are much stronger than us. for example, in psychology and memory. they are not weak creatures, we are weak, allowing to insult women even in poker.
they are just losers who behave so online and offline.
dear ladies, not so bad. I respect women. let's play together, I will not let you offend), let's play poker

Seems about right to me. I feel like I sit with a woman >5% of the time when I play live.

I wish more women would play live poker. It is a game for everyone. Everyone should be accepted and not be discriminated against do to gender.

57noona said:

I wish more women would play live poker. It is a game for everyone. Everyone should be accepted and not be discriminated against do to gender.

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I'm not going to pretend like inappropriate behavior doesn't exist. I've never witnessed it, but I don't see that much live poker.

Here's my question: wouldn't you expect a much larger percentage of online women? What do the numbers suggest about the current number of online women pros?