Obvious collusion: what to do?

Back from a 3 night midweek comp at Harrahs Cherokee NC. Played 1-2 holdem, $200 max buy in. On SIX different day/eve/night room visits the same three men were at the same table - each two seats apart, each with $500+ chip stacks. Every other preflop was raised and all three saw every flop.

Pretty soon it became OBVIOUS that they were colluding! If one hit the flop, he'd start talking about the wsop, signalling for another to bet ahead to trap the rest of us. Talking about food meant that person missed the draw/was betting a bluff. Stacking chips on top of the cards meant they had the nuts, etc. Once all the dead money folded, we'd virtually never see a river or their actual winning hand. (no bad beats here)

I never caused a scene or had any direct confrontation - I either left or got a table change. After the third session I of course refused to play at their table, and carefully detailed my concerns to two different shift managers. But I came back to the room THREE more times and they were still there fleecing unsuspecting tourists!

Should I have handled the situation differently? What would you have done?

Tough position to be in. It is obvious that they are regulars at that casino, and are well known to management, which means that the choice between you and them is a no-brainer...management will side with them. While you are probably 100% sure and correctly so, that they are cheating, management's overt position would be that it could not be proven, and that to make the accusation could potentially leave the casino open to a law suit. So, the long and short of it is that they would rather lose you as a customer than take the chance on annoying them. Your best bet is to find another time to play when they are not around, or find another poker room. Sad that it would come to that, but, I think you would be fighting an uphill battle.

Don't go back

They may even be in collusion with the casino attendants. You can not do anything. It is better to keep quiet and just do not play with them. Otherwise you may have trouble with them.Find another casino.

I'd like to think the eyes in the ceiling were watching and documenting the details. I'm sure they will want concreate evidence.
You did the right thing by raising the flag on them.

Hotlantan said:

Back from a 3 night midweek comp at Harrahs Cherokee NC. Played 1-2 holdem, $200 max buy in. On SIX different day/eve/night room visits the same three men were at the same table - each two seats apart, each with $500+ chip stacks. Every other preflop was raised and all three saw every flop.

Pretty soon it became OBVIOUS that they were colluding! If one hit the flop, he'd start talking about the WSOP, signalling for another to bet ahead to trap the rest of us. Talking about food meant that person missed the draw/was betting a bluff. Stacking chips on top of the cards meant they had the nuts, etc. Once all the dead money folded, we'd virtually never see a river or their actual winning hand. (no bad beats here)

I never caused a scene or had any direct confrontation - I either left or got a table change. After the third session I of course refused to play at their table, and carefully detailed my concerns to two different shift managers. But I came back to the room THREE more times and they were still there fleecing unsuspecting tourists!

Should I have handled the situation differently? What would you have done?

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Lol. You pretty much described every 50k mtt. Horses playing against their backers.

I think, you handled this fine. A family member of mine used to work as a dealer at a casino, and he once got two customers kicked out for obvious collusion. This is something, any serious establishment should do, and if not take your business elsewhere.

I would have done the same, I would have left the table and had informed the managers about the situation there was not much else to do, I think you handled it well and did the right thing, maybe if you had made a scene you would have prevented other players but you it could bring problems so I think you did the right thing

Sit at their table and call them out.

Its hard to tell ...I have seen a CC player limp fold to a 2bb stack on the bubble, and I am pretty sure they were not colluding, but it looked really, really, really bad. If its a live cash game I just insta quit, if its a live MTT, I just dont play in that game in the future. There is nothing worse than being cheated, but you get to choose where you play.

This would all be easily resovled in the old west... with a bullet... or three.

But seriously, if the casino management is not listening, then the best you can do is to warn other players about it, don't let anyone fall in their trap, if the casino won't listen and bans you, then hand out flyers in the entrance, people will pass the word around.

**** these rats.

Do you feel slighted enough to write a letter to the gaming commission, err email I guess.

As others stated, the collusions not just the players involved, the house is guilty too.

Sounds like it was pretty obvious. Write an email.

dregan said:

They may even be in collusion with the casino attendants. You can not do anything. It is better to keep quiet and just do not play with them. Otherwise you may have trouble with them.Find another casino.

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It is exactly what I was about to mention...unfortunately, I know of such a case in one of the major locals casino where for 3 months the shift manager had a significant other and two other roommates playing at the same table every time that person worked. I knew their roommate situation because they rented their house from my company. Nothing you can do. Find another room 🤔

I would play at the table. It is easy to know when to fold and when to play. Make some decent money then.

Back when Cherokee had electronic tables... I felt something was off a few times. When I play there now at the wsop-c events, if not in a mtt, I sng. When I just visit it's usually the nightly tourneys for me with maybe a couple hours of afternoon ring.... haven't noticed what you describe.

Thanks for posting your experience. I have encountered collusion both online and live multiple times. It's part of the environment.
Online after being whipsawed on Titan (more than once because they were big money games..at least for me) I contacted support via chat during the game (phone works also) and detailed my concerns live. I then quit the game and emailed support. I had PT2 at the time and I made notes both within the software and player notes. I also followed up on sharkscope and everywhere else I could track those players. I believe that I received a note in every case that they didn't detect collusion and were looking into it (bad press to admit thievery exists).
Live, I noted crimped cards, marked cards, dealer collusion....etc..(you should read everything you can from Jordan, Livingstone...regarding card cheating and sleight of hand). If you can, set up the colluding players because they will be predictable and you can win a big pot..patience is required and you may need to set up and wipe out an innocent but everyone is there to play. If you succeed then take your winnings and nod at each colluding player in turn then report your concerns to the management. If you have concerns about the management then report the incident to the gaming commission. A word to the wise however, Atlantic City and Niagara Falls have some very bad people who sometimes play at these games for various reasons so judge yourself accordingly.

If I had noticed that I would have told the managers or anyone I thought could do something about it. After seeing nothing being done I would have found another house to play at.

Hey
Its good you noticed collusion.

But there is only little one can do about it.

I personally would have just walked off.

I’m surprised no one else has said anything. If you were able to figure it out I’m sure dealers should be able to also.

Hotlantan said:

Back from a 3 night midweek comp at Harrahs Cherokee NC. Played 1-2 holdem, $200 max buy in. On SIX different day/eve/night room visits the same three men were at the same table - each two seats apart, each with $500+ chip stacks. Every other preflop was raised and all three saw every flop... What would you have done?

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If I had their signals figured out, I'd exploit, exploit, exploit. After breaking them, I'd have a talk with the card room manager.

Dorugremon said:

If I had their signals figured out, I'd exploit, exploit, exploit. After breaking them, I'd have a talk with the card room manager.

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100% some managers aren't going to so anything to their regulars. If you've got em dialed in then stick it to them - they deserve it. I've played at the same tables with friends and family members...no sense in colluding with them when there are enough fish for everyone.

Get out of the room and don t look back in anger.

Why not use your phone and record this collusion, and obtain solid proof? If it is as obvious as the op says, then it shouldn't be hard to capture.

If you had that much info on them, you should of been able to control the game and drain their chips. Collusion only works if nobody is wise to what you are doing.

It's disgusting to do it. Hell I play tournaments with my wife sometimes at the same table. I tell her going in, I have to play my game like I don't know you. You gonna get put out if I think I have you beat.

Simple as that. She understands the consequences of collusion. Would rather make her better than steal a tournament.

we'd virtually never see a river or their actual winning hand.

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So how do you "know" that stacking chips on the cards means they had the nuts?