Does any one fold AK, KK, QQ?

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Dhendrixon

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Was wondering if anyone here folds preflop premium hands such as AK, KK, QQ at micro stakes tables. Scenario here would be a NIT UTG+1 player opens up for 3x, you have QQ in hijack and 3 bet, everyone else folds and they 4 bet you. To me that is a fold, specially if they only play 8% of hands from that position. Does anyone else fold these hands? If they are LAG player than it is different, just speaking of tight players.
 
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In this scenario I would fold AK and QQ, with KK I would definitely play the hand.
 
Poker Orifice

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Dhendrixon said:
Was wondering if anyone here folds preflop premium hands such as AK, KK, QQ at micro stakes tables. Scenario here would be a NIT UTG+1 player opens up for 3x, you have QQ in hijack and 3 bet, everyone else folds and they 4 bet you. To me that is a fold, specially if they only play 8% of hands from that position. Does anyone else fold these hands? If they are LAG player than it is different, just speaking of tight players.
Click to expand...

in short - not likely


Nowhere near enough information to give you a decent answer.
ie. how deep are effective stacks?

Not sure I'm ever 3B/folding here. I'd prefer flatting to 3B/folding but of course 'it depends'
 
Timmah120

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Personally, KK and QQ I will re-raise preflop all the time. On the flop, I will make a decision based on texture and what my opponent has been communicating to me through their bets and overall play so far (tight, loose, c-better, etc.).

A major leak of mine that I recently identified is getting "married to my cards." AA, KK, QQ are nice hands, but in the end, they are just a pair. Always put some thought into your play before making a move, especially post-flop. They are not invincible. If you're beat, you'll probably lose money, but the goal is to lose the least amount possible.

Pot odds and equity always play a factor for me too. Low limit online players love shoving their stack on the flop when they hit something, which is usually a huge over bet, hoping that someone with a drawing hand or an inferior hand will be dumb enough to call them. Sometimes they hit light, others they hit hard.

For example, if I'm holding AA and I re-raise preflop and villain calls that re-raise (assuming he was the original raiser) I take note of that. If the flop comes Q-J-10 rainbow and he shoves, there are tons of things he could have. QQ, JJ, 10-10. QJ, J-10, even 8-9 or AK. All of which would have my AA crushed. SO, I ask myself: is it worth committing almost my entire stack to win a small pot just because I have AA? I don't care if villain is bluffing or not...it's not a good $$ deal.

Let's say you fold and the villain was bluffing. Now, the player may begin to think he/she can push you around. The next time you hit hard against him, use that to your advantage and stack them!

As far as AK goes, a huge leak a lot of players have is over-playing this hand. It looks nice, even suited, but it needs to improve to have anything. In the end, it's just an A-high hand. Re-raising preflop my be okay in later positions, and I'd definitely open raise this in any position, but post-flop, if you don't improve and don't have position, dump it. If you're in position and the villain(s) check to you, a 2/3 or 3/4 c-bet might be okay, depending on the situation.

Sorry for the long post...
 
EvaQueen777

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I am...

AK is folded very easily, it's harder for me to fold KK, but if I see that there is nothing on the flop, I can even fold AA, because I understand perfectly well that I can get into a set, a straight, etc. There are people who cannot, I don't know why, they probably think that AA KK QQ AK are 100% winning cards, but no. I don't remember the math, but I can say: yes, the cards are very good, but with ANY card you can lose, as well as with 2 aces. The probability is either 8/10 or 9/10 I don’t remember. I'm not right, but this is my opinion, respect it please:cool:
 
okeedokalee

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The micro buy-ins are so small so you stand to lose only a small amount if you are wrong.
You also have to factor in the volatility at that level.
If they are low stacked they are libel to 4 bet weak hands.
 
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okeedokalee said:
The micro buy-ins are so small so you stand to lose only a small amount if you are wrong.
Click to expand...
lets say they're only losing, $1. what does that matter if they have a $300 bankroll, correct?

well, then the same could be said if they had a $150k bankroll and played $500 mtts, right? or should they play a bit more cautiously because they're now risking $500 instead of $1 when, in both situations, they're only risking .03% of their bankroll?

the amount of money you're risking shouldn't be a factor in your decision making. if you're only risking .03% of your bankroll, then there is no difference if you're risking $1, $10, $100, or $1000. it's all the same amount. if your decisions are affected by the buy-in, then you're putting too much at risk that you're not comfortable with and either need to increase your bankroll or drop down in stakes until you're at a buy-in you're comfortable with.
 
VVi10

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There’s no chance to fold any of these hands, there are really strong hands in any occasion
 
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AK - yes, KK - yes QQ - yes, even AA - yes. It depends on the situation. For example, if there are 8 players left and 4 goes all-in and the first 6 win a ticket of the same value,, AA = easy fold.
 
BigCountryAA

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I'll let it remain a mystery.
 
hugh blair

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In the micros never folding group 1 hands most of the time preflop might as well stop playing if you are folding QQ and KK preflop seriously maybe if bubble and really need cash only exception.:)
You would probably be blinded out well before you get dealt AA.:eek:
 
Loonbat

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hugh blair said:
In the micros never folding group 1 hands most of the time preflop might as well stop playing if you are folding QQ and KK preflop seriously maybe if bubble and really need cash only exception.:)
You would probably be blinded out well before you get dealt AA.:eek:
Click to expand...

This pretty much nails it. I will and do play AKo slower than many in a multiway pot pre, and may fold to the 4-bet (even in micro MTTs). KK and QQ, while also in tier 1 hands for starters, are significantly more playable postflop than most flops you find for AK, though, and I treat them accordingly.

In the case you mention, even with villain only playing 8% from this position, QQ is too strong to fold pre, unless other considerations (ICM for example) come into play and heavily influence your decision.
 
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You dont specify, if its a cash game or tournament, and this does matter at least a little bit. With the typical tournament stack size of 30-40BB, its rare, that I get away from QQ+ or AK preflop.

In cash games (or early in MTTs) with 100BB or more stack size, its a different story. In the situation, you describe, AK and QQ can be kind of easy folds, especially if the 4-bet is large. Basically a lot of nits will have stats like 10% RFI from EP and 10% 4-bet, and this basically mean, a 4-bet is AA or KK. AK and QQ are in terrible shape against that range, and they suffer from reverse implied odds as well, if we just call the 4-bet.

KK is the tough one, because while KK is also crushed, if their range is truly only KK-AA, then there is no room for error, and we are making a pretty big mistake by folding, if its any wider. So usually I only fold KK, if I have a very specific read, or its a very specific situation. I believe the last time was, when I got 4-bet and was just about to jam. But then I looked at my HUD and saw 1% 3-bet over 3k hands, and I ended up folding instead.
 
kraemer

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If you have QQ and opponent plays 8% from that position
you are a favorite against almost any hand from that range,
except for AA and KK...

Especially on lower stakes you will se a lot of players making
moves like that with 10 10 or J J.

Maybe 1 in 20 times i will be like "damn he has aces" and fold...
And a bit more often on the bubble in a MTT


Edit: LOL... Just busted by calling with KK vs. AQo....
 
Last edited:
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angelamsmith05

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Timmah120 said:
Personally, KK and QQ I will re-raise preflop all the time. On the flop, I will make a decision based on texture and what my opponent has been communicating to me through their bets and overall play so far (tight, loose, c-better, etc.).

A major leak of mine that I recently identified is getting "married to my cards." AA, KK, QQ are nice hands, but in the end, they are just a pair. Always put some thought into your play before making a move, especially post-flop. They are not invincible. If you're beat, you'll probably lose money, but the goal is to lose the least amount possible.

Pot odds and equity always play a factor for me too. Low limit online players love shoving their stack on the flop when they hit something, which is usually a huge over bet, hoping that someone with a drawing hand or an inferior hand will be dumb enough to call them. Sometimes they hit light, others they hit hard.

For example, if I'm holding AA and I re-raise preflop and villain calls that re-raise (assuming he was the original raiser) I take note of that. If the flop comes Q-J-10 rainbow and he shoves, there are tons of things he could have. QQ, JJ, 10-10. QJ, J-10, even 8-9 or AK. All of which would have my AA crushed. SO, I ask myself: is it worth committing almost my entire stack to win a small pot just because I have AA? I don't care if villain is bluffing or not...it's not a good $$ deal.

Let's say you fold and the villain was bluffing. Now, the player may begin to think he/she can push you around. The next time you hit hard against him, use that to your advantage and stack them!

As far as AK goes, a huge leak a lot of players have is over-playing this hand. It looks nice, even suited, but it needs to improve to have anything. In the end, it's just an A-high hand. Re-raising preflop my be okay in later positions, and I'd definitely open raise this in any position, but post-flop, if you don't improve and don't have position, dump it. If you're in position and the villain(s) check to you, a 2/3 or 3/4 c-bet might be okay, depending on the situation.

Sorry for the long post...
Click to expand...

Thank you! This was a very helpful post.
 
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only folds if a high part of the tourney or the bubble and the raises are very high and you need to got the cashing places
 
Phoenix Wright

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Cooking said:
In this scenario I would fold AK and QQ, with KK I would definitely play the hand.
Click to expand...

+1 Although I might be more inclined to still play QQ though; however, it depends, I've folded this hand before too; depends how nitty they are lol. KK and AA are certainly worth playing for all of our chips though :)
 
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If there is a big raise preflop I will fold AK, but KK will play.
 
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Dhendrixon said:
Was wondering if anyone here folds preflop premium hands such as AK, KK, QQ at micro stakes tables. Scenario here would be a NIT UTG+1 player opens up for 3x, you have QQ in hijack and 3 bet, everyone else folds and they 4 bet you. To me that is a fold, specially if they only play 8% of hands from that position. Does anyone else fold these hands? If they are LAG player than it is different, just speaking of tight players.
Click to expand...


watch this video:



and read this:

https://www.pokernews.com/strategy/esfandari-and-the-folding-pocket-kings-preflop-puzzle-28765.htm
 
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