Can BOTS be beaten?

RiverLord90

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I hear a lot of talk about bots being 100% undeniably a part of online poker. Especially in all the US-friendly poker sites like ACR, BOL, ignition, etc.

So my question is, since NLHE is not a solved game, does that mean it's still possible to beat these bots? Like Neo beating the Agents in the Matrix. Or is it -ROI to even try? Anyone here have any personal experience playing against bots?
 
Lorpugo

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It depends on boтs but if someone is using bot online and is winning money this means you can not beat it.
 
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I don’t know it seems to me that all people play, but bots have come up with so who loses all the time. Unpleasant situations happen everywhere and very tough. In live poker tournaments they are not counted, but on the Internet even more.
 
ROman77

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Bots are built on logic, human psychology . The answer is that Yes! Bots can be defeated ! I saw a video on this topic, it is a pity that I can not provide it ..
 
puzzlefish

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If you play a bot heads up, you have a chance of winning. The problem is when multi bots sit at the same table and collude by sharing hole card information, chip dumping, and soft playing wherever applicable. In that situation, your chances are greatly diminished. There's a luck element to poker, but in the end it is a game of probability and mathematics. Whoever exploits it best will get the best results.

As for bots being built on predictable, exploitable algorithm and logic, that's easily remedied by programming variance into bot programs. Keep in mind that bots have been around for many years and developers are always improving them.
 
RiverLord90

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It depends on boтs but if someone is using bot online and is winning money this means you can not beat it.


Yeah, I would try to avoid a winning bot if I could help it.
 
RiverLord90

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I don’t know it seems to me that all people play, but bots have come up with so who loses all the time. Unpleasant situations happen everywhere and very tough. In live poker tournaments they are not counted, but on the Internet even more.

Yeah I know variance is part of the game but I have seen some fishy stuff spectating high stakes cash games. Like 3 or 4 people from Eastern Europe sitting down at the same time and then leaving all at once (might just be collusion). Maybe live poker is the way to go to avoid all of that.
 
RiverLord90

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Bots are built on logic, human psychology . The answer is that Yes! Bots can be defeated ! I saw a video on this topic, it is a pity that I can not provide it ..

Nice! That's what I wanted to hear. I've seen some articles that touched up on this subject so I need to finish reading them, I'll also look for some videos and hopefully come across the one you're talking about.
 
RiverLord90

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If you play a bot heads up, you have a chance of winning. The problem is when multi bots sit at the same table and collude by sharing hole card information, chip dumping, and soft playing wherever applicable. In that situation, your chances are greatly diminished. There's a luck element to poker, but in the end it is a game of probability and mathematics. Whoever exploits it best will get the best results.

As for bots being built on predictable, exploitable algorithm and logic, that's easily remedied by programming variance into bot programs. Keep in mind that bots have been around for many years and developers are always improving them.


Yeah I think I see this a lot at high stakes cash tables that I spectate. There will be like 3 or 4 accounts from Eastern Europe sit down at the same time and then after a while, they all get up at the same time too. Very strange. Not sure if it's bots colluding or people colluding but definitely some funny business going on.

I feel like one bot, like you said heads up, could be exploitable and beaten especially if we make sure to keep our game seemingly as random as possible (ex. raising AQ spades but calling AQ hearts). Anyways, if I spot one or more, I think I'll just try to avoid them for the time being.
 
muse713

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Yeah I know variance is part of the game but I have seen some fishy stuff spectating high stakes cash games. Like 3 or 4 people from Eastern Europe sitting down at the same time and then leaving all at once (might just be collusion). Maybe live poker is the way to go to avoid all of that.


Joe Ingram did a video on this.

 
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Bot's play a nearly game from position. If you detect a Bot ( which is not hard ) try 3 betting the bot with any 2 cards. Play back at bot's ! Bot's will fold unless they wake up with a top tier calling hand !! Good Luck
 
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Bots suck and are no match for highly skilled players. They win by playing lots of games against weak competition. Personally I like having the bots around, it's the same as having a bunch of amateurs in your game. Only thing the AI is good at is not tilting.
 
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time for an actual answer with context the best players in the world lost to a heads up bot which was programmed well there have not yet been bots made to compete 9 handed that are up to standard to beat the best in the world. So currently yes Bots are beatable and a highly skilled poker player could beat some bots.

However please note what I am saying a highly skilled poker player. not your average run of the mill ABC grinder or guy like me who makes min wage from the game which is better then most of the poker community.

In fact a lot of grinders play still tends to be learned hand charts and mass multi tabling ABC poker. many players are profitable doing this and so yes bots can be programmed better then this.

I know a lot of poker players think good poker play is been unpredictable and random so will sometimes try moves like playing 102 off suit as if it is pocket aces. The generic trend is either to never do this sort of thing or to do it far to often and think your the next Tom Dwan patrick Antanious etc etc.

I never do those sort of plays and have produced my own hand charts and this is a tight range but one thing about my whole system of play is it is combos eg i will be bluffing some of the time but will have the goods some of the time to calculated in the right ratios players do not get the odds to play back at me. Which for some reason they always do which leads to me been profitable.

Now imagine instead of me doing this you have an actual program that has done a huge amount of math and algorithms it will be much stronger at constructing this sort of play. eventually bots will be made that are literally unbeatable. a bot will have programmed variance into it.

people imagine they will be playing a bot that plays tight raises with AK check folds when they miss and bets when they have it or something like C bets with AK when they miss and check folds on the turn if they dont improve. first of this sort of play is profitable at low stakes though is definitely exploitable secondly bots would be better programmed then that.

The vast majority of players are losing to bots its that simple. and eventually all players will lose to bots.
 
MMDPL

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Ri

I hear a lot of talk about bots being 100% undeniably a part of online poker. Especially in all the US-friendly poker sites like ACR, BOL, Ignition, etc.

So my question is, since NLHE is not a solved game, does that mean it's still possible to beat these bots? Like Neo beating the Agents in the Matrix. Or is it -ROI to even try? Anyone here have any personal experience playing against bots?
I have been playing for a very long time since 2013, the last time it’s not possible at all to play with a good pocket pair of AA or KK or DD, it seems to me that they are playing along the other way it’s impossible to explain the failures in the game:cool:
 
MMDPL

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bots

If I understand correctly that you like to have bots and play against weak players, isn’t it a machinism?:sheep:
 
sidenotch

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would be okay if the site ACR didnt deal the bots great cards!

Bots suck and are no match for highly skilled players. They win by playing lots of games against weak competition. Personally I like having the bots around, it's the same as having a bunch of amateurs in your game. Only thing the AI is good at is not tilting.

Lots of theories are defeated when there's a site like ACR which deals out consistently GREAT cards to bots, or the same player at a rate of 80% or more. No matter what they play they seem to get their cards at flop, or a dumb river chase out! Bots are hard to detect at ACR and because multiple ID's are allowed also, it makes it even harder.:rolleyes:
 
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Lots of theories are defeated when there's a site like ACR which deals out consistently GREAT cards to bots, or the same player at a rate of 80% or more. No matter what they play they seem to get their cards at flop, or a dumb river chase out! Bots are hard to detect at ACR and because multiple ID's are allowed also, it makes it even harder.:rolleyes:


No doubt! That's why I've never touched ACR. Even their website looks like a scam. I do play on 888 though which is infested with obvious bots but I beat them just fine so it doesn't bother me.
 
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I haven't done much research on this subject, but as a software developer I feel like I have a decent understanding on the subject...

Bots are programmed to be logical and to always make the "best move". This is why it makes it so difficult, whenever you get the advantage on one the logic will most likely tell it to fold. But this is poker - and no matter how advanced the bot is, unless they are directly connected to the site and can see the next cards out, they can not beat the luck aspect of the game. In other words to "beat" a bot you have to play some risky hands and hope that your KK beats their AA.

To summarize, they (the bots) only play the hands when they know it is the strongest hand, so to trick a bot you need to beat their strong hand with a weaker one.
 
8bod8

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The problem is when multi bots sit at the same table and collude by sharing hole card information, chip dumping, and soft playing wherever applicable.
Collusion seems more of a problem for humans than for bots.
Same for house player/bots that knows all cards at the start of every hand; these really would be unbeatable.
 
wlad20082009

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I hear a lot of talk about bots being 100% undeniably a part of online poker. Especially in all the US-friendly poker sites like ACR, BOL, Ignition, etc.

So my question is, since NLHE is not a solved game, does that mean it's still possible to beat these bots? Like Neo beating the Agents in the Matrix. Or is it -ROI to even try? Anyone here have any personal experience playing against bots?
I think that it is difficult to do . I've been reading a lot about it lately . I do not like that serious people engaged in the development and application . For online poker, this can be fatal . I hope that the poker rooms will find a way out of the situation . Otherwise, they will lose their profits . I've been trying not to invest in the game lately .
 
starlord2014

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It's very difficult to do . It seems that if you have a strong hand junk always beats it, bots.
 
kraemer

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Of course... even for bots there is luck involved. It’s not that a mathematically correct play is guaranteed to win.

Depending on how you play and how good the bot is programmed you might even find a leak in his game that you can exploit.

Poker is not just math and concepts like stealing pots or bluffing are still hard to be incorporated in a bot.
 
RiverLord90

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Bot's play a nearly game from position. If you detect a Bot ( which is not hard ) try 3 betting the bot with any 2 cards. Play back at bot's ! Bot's will fold unless they wake up with a top tier calling hand !! Good Luck

What are some ways to detect a bot? If they are that easy to beat, then I'm not too worried about them anymore.
 
RiverLord90

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Bots suck and are no match for highly skilled players. They win by playing lots of games against weak competition. Personally I like having the bots around, it's the same as having a bunch of amateurs in your game. Only thing the AI is good at is not tilting.

Well no tilt is definitely an advantage! But I like playing against fish so that's a plus.
 
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