Sheldon Adelson's Attack on Online Gambling

kidkvno1

kidkvno1

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Yeah ok in his eyes online gaming is bad, Ok! lets look at it, online you can play at 2Nl and keep your house, well land based casinos have the lowest buy-in at 100NL, so i see going broke quicker in his casino!

Recent research from a number of European countries shows that the proliferation of internet gaming has, as a start, resulted in a 20 percent decrease in visitation to the land-based casinos in those countries. That number is bound to worsen as internet gaming dependency grows.

The research also shows that over the past ten years internet gambling revenue in Europe has gone up on average 26 to 28 percent. Meanwhile, land-based casino revenue has been flat or even contracted during that same period of time, even though it was expected to increase at five to ten percent per year.

In short, the rise of internet gaming has clearly come at the cost of land-based casinos in Europe.

What does that information foretell for us here in the United States? To begin with, a loss of 200,000 direct gaming industry jobs and additional 200,000 lost indirect and induced jobs. That’s 400, 000 lost jobs in casino-hosting cities across America.
Casinos are losing jobs in the US since BF hit, with the cost of gas going up again, no one has the cash to fund a BR and pay for gas at the same time.
I know, he's just mad, since he did not come up with the idea of online poker first.
 
hobonc

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It ticks me off that they want to lump poker in with games that are vs the house itself.
 
sam1chips

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"In short, the rise of internet gaming has clearly come at the cost of land-based casinos in Europe."

I laughed at this line...is that reason to get rid of it? That's sort of how the world works these days, tons of people are losing jobs due to technological advancements, I don't see how you can single out poker...


...The emergence of amazon/eBay has allowed people to shop from their homes! And since people don't need to get dressed up to go shopping and there is no recognition by society of what you're buying, then people will be spending their money recklessly! And the online stores will put all of the actual stores out of business!...haha sounds like a similar argument, it obviously makes no sense...
 
sam1chips

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It ticks me off that they want to lump poker in with games that are vs the house itself.

+1. They see how much money that pokerstars and other online sites make per year, and realize that a % of that will get into his pocket if it all ends
 
dj11

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70 years as a business man and still is pissed about his investment in a buggy whip factory.

face palm.....
 
Dorkus Malorkus

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"Sheldon Adelson is chairman and CEO of Las Vegas Sands LVS -4.6% Corp..."

well this is sure gonna be a completely unbiased article ;)
 
curtinsea

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the height of hypocrisy imo. You can't credibly espouse the evil of gambling when you have made your fortune from gambling. Clearly, he is more concerned with competition from low overhead internet operators
 
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the only way i see that it's bad is it's bad for casino business. if u think about it, why go to a casino when u can stay home. of course this theory is for those that have to drive more than an hour..like i do.
 
curtinsea

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the only way i see that it's bad is it's bad for casino business. if u think about it, why go to a casino when u can stay home. of course this theory is for those that have to drive more than an hour..like i do.

For games against the house, this is completely true, although Adelson tries to make the claim that most of his business is 'other than' gaming, such as shows and food and what not. But the plain truth is that if you can play slots or blackjack at your computer, there is little reason to go to a casino, and pay high prices for food and entertainment.

This is a big part of the 'poker is different' argument.
 
curtinsea

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You need only look at the explosive growth of the wsop once online satellites came around in 2003 to see that internet poker is actually good for casino poker. To argue otherwise is folly.
 
Reptar7

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To counter his argument, I think we should outlaw every game that isn't skill based. So he can have blackjack and poker, but we should make all those slots illegal.

I'm all for putting limits on how much people are allowed to spend gambling (maybe 10k per year?) but those limits should also apply to casinos then too.

Basically, he made the point in his article, online gaming would hurt his already dying business, and so he'll say anything to keep that from happening.
 
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Sheldon Adelson is just a greedy old fart that is bored in life. Imho has he ever enjoyed his money?
 
curtinsea

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I'm all for putting limits on how much people are allowed to spend gambling (maybe 10k per year?) but those limits should also apply to casinos then too.

There is no rationale for limiting how much someone is allowed to 'spend' gambling, any more than there should be limits on how much someone should be allowed to pay for a vacation, or a car, or toys like boats and watercraft.

But there are behaviors that are demonstrated by those with gambling issues. For instance, someone who makes a deposit, loses it all, then makes another deposit, and loses it all, shouldn't be allowed to make another deposit that day, or for some given period. It doesn't matter how big or small the deposits are, it demonstrates a gambling problem.

But to try and limit the dollar amount is just wrong. If you have money that you have earned, you should be able to spend as much of it on entertainment as you wish.
 
Comptonkid

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There is no rationale for limiting how much someone is allowed to 'spend' gambling, any more than there should be limits on how much someone should be allowed to pay for a vacation, or a car, or toys like boats and watercraft.

But there are behaviors that are demonstrated by those with gambling issues. For instance, someone who makes a deposit, loses it all, then makes another deposit, and loses it all, shouldn't be allowed to make another deposit that day, or for some given period. It doesn't matter how big or small the deposits are, it demonstrates a gambling problem.

But to try and limit the dollar amount is just wrong. If you have money that you have earned, you should be able to spend as much of it on entertainment as you wish.

I agree with this. plus if they put a dollar limit on how much you could gamble per year then it would be very unfair to the players at the higher stakes who could reach the limit with one hand.
 
kidkvno1

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I don't deposit and get my BR's from freerolls! Does his casinos have freerolls?
 
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Live will always have its place , there is no way to replace the sounds , smells and sense of competition that live offers . Funny people , jerks , nice folk idiots etc. they all make for that unknown of"what will happen and I am glad I was there to see it feeling."

That being said technology changes things and adjusts market share in all industries . Who wants to be the folks that make a living printing phone books?

I enjoy live but really enjoy being able to play short or long sessions in my underwear with no real prep or drive involved.

I understand that a business may want a monopoly , tough buttons adapt or fail .
 
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uarejelly

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Live will always have its place , there is no way to replace the sounds , smells and sense of competition that live offers . Funny people , jerks , nice folk idiots etc. they all make for that unknown of"what will happen and I am glad I was there to see it feeling."

That being said technology changes things and adjusts market share in all industries . Who wants to be the folks that make a living printing phone books?

I enjoy live but really enjoy being able to play short or long sessions in my underwear with no real prep or drive involved.

I understand that a business may want a monopoly , tough buttons adapt or fail .
perfect post the old man is mad people would rather play from home and play cod while playing a few tables then sit in his casino and pay him rake
 
WVHillbilly

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This is either a very poorly researched article or Mr. Adelson is just making up "facts" in an effort to support his desire that he never face online competition.

1st he states that this isn't about his business but his first point is the loss of live gaming revenue in Europe supposedly due to online casinos.

He then makes the wild claim that if the US saw the same decline (a claimed 20%) in live gaming should online play be legalized, we would lose 200k casino jobs!!! Well according to the American Gaming Association there were only 363k casino jobs in the US in 2012. So, according to Mr. Adelson, casinos would be forced to cut their workforce by nearly 56% while losing 20% of their revenue. Seems like Mr. Adelson is just throwing around "scary" numbers while hoping no one bothers to look them up.

He also says that his casinos profits are mostly made in Asia where "online gambling doesn’t exist and won’t be legalized soon, if ever.". This is another statement that doesn't hold water. Yes their are certain Asian countries, namely those with repressive governments who block online gaming at their ISPs (along with sites like Facebook, YouTube, Twitter, Blogspot, etc), but there are many more Asian countries with thriving online gaming sites (they also have thriving live gaming it should be noted).

It's pretty obvious that he does, in fact, fear the competition and he's obviously willing to say anything to try to eliminate the threat of it.
 
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Reptar7

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There is no rationale for limiting how much someone is allowed to 'spend' gambling, any more than there should be limits on how much someone should be allowed to pay for a vacation, or a car, or toys like boats and watercraft.

But there are behaviors that are demonstrated by those with gambling issues. For instance, someone who makes a deposit, loses it all, then makes another deposit, and loses it all, shouldn't be allowed to make another deposit that day, or for some given period. It doesn't matter how big or small the deposits are, it demonstrates a gambling problem.

But to try and limit the dollar amount is just wrong. If you have money that you have earned, you should be able to spend as much of it on entertainment as you wish.

Say a guy with $10k to his name deposits it all, and a millionaire deposits $100 twice in one day and loses it all both times. Are we really cutting of the millionaire while we are fine with the other guy putting his life savings online?

I'm not arguing against a cap on number of daily deposits, just that I think an amount being associated with it would also be a good idea.

I'm really not sure how to tackle the "cap" issue. I would say that we could have a low cap (like $1k) and then allow people to request larger caps based on their wealth, but that just seems like over regulation and a hassle for people. I'm not sure how to handle the issue, but I would agree there ideally would be some safeguards in place.
 
WVHillbilly

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Who is the government to babysit my money? If I want to make six $100 deposits in a day or a one time $30k deposit, it's MY MONEY!!! I'm tired of acquiescing control of MY LIFE to the government. We need to stop allowing the government to dictate how we spend our free time and money. The government is there to serve us, not be a parent!
 
Debi

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I have time now to properly respond to this article and I am going to pick him apart quite easily.

First of all - he is primarily attacking online poker - he just thinks he gains credibility by lumping it in with other types of degenerate gambling. Poker is not like playing craps or slot machines. There is a strong level of skill involved in playing poker that sets it apart from other types of gambling.

"Critics will claim I have ulterior motives in taking such a strong stand on this issue."

One of the few true statements in his article - they/we will pick him apart because it is crystal clear that he does have ulterior motives.

"the hit on other commercial casinos, Native American casinos, and racetrack-casinos across the land could be substantial and even lead to their eventual demise."

Drama King? People who flock to live casinos for degenerate gambling will continue to do so - they are not online poker players. In addition - online poker players who would have never or rarely go to live casinos now fill tournaments in them in record breaking numbers. Take me for example. I used to go to a live casino about once every 2-3 years. Since I started playing online poker I now visit live casinos an average of 4 times a year - including his very own Venetian and Palazzo which I likely would have never visited if it were not for online poker.

"the proliferation of internet gaming has, as a start, resulted in a 20 percent decrease in visitation to the land-based casinos in those countries. That number is bound to worsen as internet gaming dependency grows. The research also shows that over the past ten years internet gambling revenue in Europe has gone up on average 26 to 28 percent. Meanwhile, land-based casino revenue has been flat or even contracted during that same period of time, even though it was expected to increase at five to ten percent per year."

Is he seriously not going to consider the fact that in the past 10 years online gaming and poker were in their earliest stages of existence??? Of course they saw growth - so did everything else you can now do on the internet. They were growing from almost nothing lol.

And of course existing businesses has been flat or have decreased if you look at the last 10 years - did he forget about the big economy bust?

In short, the rise of internet gaming has clearly come at the cost of land-based casinos in Europe.


No - that is not clear at all.

Online gambling makes it possible for bets to be placed by anyone at any time. When gambling is available in every bedroom, every dorm room and every office space, there will be no way to fully determine that each wager has been placed in a rational and consensual manner.

Let's just shut down the internet then so nobody can make purchases of any kind online. And there is also no way to fully determine that each wager made in his casinos has been placed in a rational manner. I have seen some seriously irrational gamblers in his casino throwing away money they obviously can not afford to lose. Should we close the Venetian to prevent that?

The US government has no business controlling people in either situation. We are responsible for our own behavior and decisions - whether we are in our bedroom or in his casino.

"For example, the possibility of underage children finding ways to place online wagers and the possibility of people betting under the influence of drugs or being coerced are all scenarios that can happen when the person is only monitored by their own computer screen.
On the other hand, when a person makes an effort to get dressed, join some friends and head to the local casino for a night of entertainment they must show themselves as adults, and their behavior can be observed and ultimately managed by security and other staff if needed."

And there are also controls that can be put in place to monitor online gambling behaviors - welcome to 2013 sir.

Let’s also focus here on the impact of online gambling on children and young adults.

There are also methods that can be put in place to minimize that. Underage young adults manage to get into his casinos on a regular basis. Also he and other parents need to monitor their children - not the US government.

"To make matters worse, young adults in America are also suffering under nearly a trillion dollars in student loans. To tempt them to solve their financial problems with a click of the mouse is unconscionable.
So, no, online gambling is not a threat to my business.
It’s a threat to our society—a toxin which all good people ought to resist."

People who are in debt and try to resolve their problems by gambling - whether it is online or in his casinos - are making these terrible decisions all on their own. They can play online, go to a casino, buy thousands of dollars worth of lottery tickets - if they want to be stupid we can not stop them and it is not our responsibility to do so.

In closing I will go so far as to say online poker should be far more acceptable than live casino gambling. As already stated it is a game that you can develop strong skills for - you have some control over the outcome unlike in his live casino games. Also a very important point is that a person who can not afford to gamble has the option to play poker online and win money without ever spending a dime. There are bonus offers, freerolls, special events - that you can enter for no money at all and still enjoy playing. Or if you have a small amount of disposable income available you have the options of playing extremely small stakes. You can start with as little as $10 or $20 and never spend another dime.

Good luck going to play poker in one of his casinos with less than $200.

He is not saying these things because he is stupid enough to believe them - he is saying them because he hopes everyone else is stupid enough to believe him.
 
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Debi

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Who is the government to babysit my money? If I want to make six $100 deposits in a day or a one time $30k deposit, it's MY MONEY!!! I'm tired of acquiescing control of MY LIFE to the government. We need to stop allowing the government to dictate how we spend our free time and money. The government is there to serve us, not be a parent!

Amen!
 
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