PokerStars accuses Gordon Vayo of altering documents

Shells · Nov 15, 2018

Gordon Vayo, the runner-up in the 2016 wsop Main Event, has dropped his lawsuit against pokerstars, but PokerStars has filed a countersuit which included accusations of altering documents.

PokerStars Countersues Gordon Vayo, Accuses Pro of Forgery, Fraud in VPN Scandal

playinggameswithu · Nov 15, 2018

I LOL'd f.uck with Stars get the horns. He shoulda just taken a cheap vacation and played his tournaments in Rosarito mexico.

HeyMan · Nov 15, 2018

American poker players using a Virtual Private Network (VPN) to play from the USA on PokerStars should be worried now!! I know someone who had $150,000 win frozen when they were busted using a VPN after black friday ..kiss that money goodby ... playing with fire I'd say

hugh blair · Nov 15, 2018

692k that is an insane amount of money to lose bad beat jackpot there.
No matter whether he played in north pole south pole timbuktoo or anywhere in the world he should not be getting dragged through courts for this.
Crazy times and laws for certain citizens in different countries around the world.
I find it a little bit weird or worrying.

VMVarga · Nov 15, 2018

hugh blair said:
692k that is an insane amount of money to lose bad beat jackpot there.
No matter whether he played in north pole south pole timbuktoo or anywhere in the world he should not be getting dragged through courts for this.
Crazy times and laws for certain citizens in different countries around the world.
I find it a little bit weird or worrying.

Isn't he the one who sued them? That would mean he is dragging himself through the courts.

It seems to me that he got caught breaking their rules, which is sort of a dumb thing to do when you think you might win that much money. I'm sure he could have afforded to fly outside the country to play that tournament. I don't feel sorry for him at all.

hugh blair · Nov 15, 2018

VMVarga said:
Isn't he the one who sued them? That would mean he is dragging himself through the courts.

It seems to me that he got caught breaking their rules, which is sort of a dumb thing to do when you think you might win that much money. I'm sure he could have afforded to fly outside the country to play that tournament. I don't feel sorry for him at all.

Ok if you feel that way just crazy its online poker physical location should not matter in my opinion.
He should get his win thats why he went to court vpns who cares thats a joke and legal representatives getting that win in fees is another joke bad bureaucracy just my humble opinion.

ammje · Nov 15, 2018

Wow that amount of money, I do not think pokerstars have because lying, and if he desisted demand was for something.
The fact you have money does not mean you can leave USA, and play in another country, there are many things involved, like family, friends, etc.
One thing is certain, with pokerstars is not played.

Poker_Mike · Nov 15, 2018

So, half this site complains about cheating and bots. Then, some on this thread don't think it matters that the site can't confirm who you are. One way any online sites confirm your identity is by your IP address, location, etc. Even ebay and amazon do this.

Additionally, (legit) poker sites don't want to intentionally break laws - they don't want investigations and trouble. The sites will be banned from future US partnerships if they intentionally break laws. And they just want to conduct business.

But yeah - cheap trip to Canada for the weekend.....and he could have that nice amount of cash in hand. Poor business practices on the player's part?

I think he was just feeling entitled and pushing the envelope by filing a lawsuit against PokerStars. His first set of lawyers must have bought the story that he was a legitimate player not being paid by an online site.

In a way, this story is good news for all those concerned about online cheating.

Good luck fellas !

Poker_Mike · Nov 15, 2018

I wonder what they do with the withheld prizemoney? Does the site just keep it? Or distribute it to the rest of the field? Charity? Spending it on lawyers? lol

Just wondering.

Good luck !

mtl mile end · Nov 15, 2018

Poker_Mike said:
I wonder what they do with the withheld prizemoney? Does the site just keep it? Or distribute it to the rest of the field? Charity? Spending it on lawyers? lol

Just wondering.

Good luck !

I'm sure they have a column for that in their accounting ledger - a big fat seven or eight digit column.

One more reason why, every day I thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster that I live in canada.

Poker_Mike · Nov 16, 2018

mtl mile end said:
I'm sure they have a column for that in their accounting ledger - a big fat seven or eight digit column.

One more reason why, every day I thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster that I live in Canada.

I guess it's kind of like how gasoline in NA costs 2.129 - nobody can pay that so they charge you 2.13 - same profit column?
It just occurred to me that 2nd place in that tournament may have his/her own grounds for a lawsuit? 2nd place should actually have won because the winner was an allegedly illegitimate player??

Ha haaaaa….you must have a very nice colander! Not sure why religion has anything to do with this?

And yes you are lucky you live in Canada......there is at least one player that was jealous of you for at least one weekend!

Good luck!

mtl mile end · Nov 16, 2018

Poker_Mike said:
I guess it's kind of like how gasoline in NA costs 2.129 - nobody can pay that so they charge you 2.13 - same profit column?
It just occurred to me that 2nd place in that tournament may have his/her own grounds for a lawsuit? 2nd place should actually have won because the winner was an allegedly illegitimate player??

Ha haaaaa….you must have a very nice colander! Not sure why religion has anything to do with this?

And yes you are lucky you live in Canada......there is at least one player that was jealous of you for at least one weekend!

Good luck!

Rounding of monetary amounts is done millions of times a day and shouldn't affect final tallies one way or the other. I think PS just made an extra 600K.

There would be no precedent (AFAIK) for a suit of this kind. Look at the big Borgata tourney a few years back (2014). From faltering memory - you can look it up. Fake chips found in the tourney on like day 5 with the tourney in the money and the counterfeiter out in the money(?). Player caught and charged, tourney suspended. They just gave the money finishers their money and cashed everyone else (19ish) at the next pay level I think. It's still in litigation. All tourney runners have agreed to the tourney rules and to rely on the TD, site/casino, and the respective commissions to make and follow their rules. Oddly, those rules seem to always favour someone other than players getting a windfall from tourney shenanigans.

It has as much to do with Religion as any other non religious topic in the world.

Poker_Mike · Nov 16, 2018

mtl mile end said:
Rounding of monetary amounts is done millions of times a day and shouldn't affect final tallies one way or the other. I think PS just made an extra 600K.

There would be no precedent (AFAIK) for a suit of this kind. Look at the big Borgata tourney a few years back (2014). From faltering memory - you can look it up. Fake chips found in the tourney on like day 5 with the tourney in the money and the counterfeiter out in the money(?). Player caught and charged, tourney suspended. They just gave the money finishers their money and cashed everyone else (19ish) at the next pay level I think. It's still in litigation. All tourney runners have agreed to the tourney rules and to rely on the TD, site/casino, and the respective commissions to make and follow their rules. Oddly, those rules seem to always favour someone other than players getting a windfall from tourney shenanigans.

It has as much to do with Religion as any other non religious topic in the world.

Yes, but rounding numbers up ALL the time and never rounding down does result in profit.

Still a little different than an accounting column titled, "Forfit"

Honestly I don't know if 2nd place has a case and what court in what jurisdiction they would bring a lawsuit to.

The Borgata thing was such a FUBAR....proly should find the thread and address this under that thread. But I did meet a player who swore that he was at a table in an "outer" room and for some reason was denied any monies. Don't know if that was true or if he was feeding the table a story.

Waiter! There is a hair in my pasta!

Good luck !

MrHachiman · Nov 16, 2018

It's crazy It is not as if he had cheated while playing, in that case it would seem right to me not to pay him a penny. But grabbing a regional restriction sounds like they're doing everything possible to not pay.

First, because they should investigate from where the player was playing. Does this alter the spirit of the game? I think it's a clear message from Pokerstars does not care poker player, and that if someone messes with them they will even sue

That is to say, Vayo should not have falsified evidence, but I understand the impotence that the situation will have caused him has treated like a cheater when he legitimately won the tournament. In short, Pokerstars sucks

Poker_Mike · Nov 16, 2018

MrHachiman said:
It's crazy It is not as if he had cheated while playing, in that case it would seem right to me not to pay him a penny. But grabbing a regional restriction sounds like they're doing everything possible to not pay.

First, because they should investigate from where the player was playing. Does this alter the spirit of the game? I think it's a clear message from Pokerstars does not care poker player, and that if someone messes with them they will even sue

That is to say, Vayo should not have falsified evidence, but I understand the impotence that the situation will have caused him has treated like a cheater when he legitimately won the tournament. In short, Pokerstars sucks

In my mind it's not any different than being under-age and playing with a false identification. Don't focus on the details of the rule being broken. Focus on the fact that the player appeared to knowingly "scam" the poker room.

Yes he must have played well to win. Yes he has "spirit" in poker.

I'm not trying to pick on Mr Vayo - but he is a famous player - and it appears that he brought this on himself.

One doesn't have to agree with the rules for the site to enforce them. But even worse for him - it appears that he went out of his way to defraud the site - so he knew what he was doing was wrong.

Good luck !

Poker_Mike · Nov 16, 2018

mtl mile end said:
I'm sure they have a column for that in their accounting ledger - a big fat seven or eight digit column.

One more reason why, every day I thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster that I live in Canada.

MTL....I found this in a different article.... it was on the internet so it must be true...

"With Vayo out of options for recovering the balance of his account, according to PokerStars policy, the amount of his victory that was unable to be recovered will be donated to charity."

This make sense to me because otherwise it just "seems" like a no-pay situation to a famous player. Now PokerStars can look good all the way around. As in, "We stopped fraud and donated to charity."

Good luck everyone !

mtl mile end · Nov 16, 2018

Poker_Mike said:
MTL....I found this in a different article.... it was on the internet so it must be true...

"With Vayo out of options for recovering the balance of his account, according to PokerStars policy, the amount of his victory that was unable to be recovered will be donated to charity."

This make sense to me because otherwise it just "seems" like a no-pay situation to a famous player. Now PokerStars can look good all the way around. As in, "We stopped fraud and donated to charity."

Good luck everyone !

Yes. This is the rumour. But if it is the policy, that's great. It certainly should be the policy.

moots · Nov 16, 2018

I believe in the past when this has happened, PokerStars distributed the prize money to the other players.

chaplain · Nov 18, 2018

Poker_Mike said:
In my mind it's not any different than being under-age and playing with a false identification. Don't focus on the details of the rule being broken. Focus on the fact that the player appeared to knowingly "scam" the poker room.

Yes he must have played well to win. Yes he has "spirit" in poker.

I'm not trying to pick on Mr Vayo - but he is a famous player - and it appears that he brought this on himself.

One doesn't have to agree with the rules for the site to enforce them. But even worse for him - it appears that he went out of his way to defraud the site - so he knew what he was doing was wrong.

Good luck !

Exactly.

chaplain · Nov 18, 2018

shells_bells_53 said:
Gordon Vayo, the runner-up in the 2016 WSOP Main Event, has dropped his lawsuit against PokerStars, but PokerStars has filed a countersuit which included accusations of altering documents.

PokerStars Countersues Gordon Vayo, Accuses Pro of Forgery, Fraud in VPN Scandal

Rules are rules. He knew he was breaking them .. it was done on purpose. Why does that make it ok? It doesn't matter that it's Pokerstars just because they are a huge organisation - you can't pick and choose when the law applies. The fact that he raised his head above the parapet and brought the action AGAINST Pokerstars first shows how stupid he is. He could have accepted he'd been caught, melted into the background and taken it as a very expensive lesson learned.
Nobody should be above the law.

PokerStars accuses Gordon Vayo of altering documents

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