Mass Sitout Scheduled For Nov. 5th @ Pstars!!

A2345Razz

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Huge sitout/boycott scheduled for Nov. 5th at pokerstars response to its shortsighted and abusive rake inflation and other detrimental moves of late under Amaya leadership. It is very important all players, be they professional, serious grinder or even casual players band together to voice their displeasure at this corporation for the direction it is leading the entire industry into.

For more information I am cross referencing the 2p2 forum so that you can see what is afoot at the game's preeminent online forum:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/dont-give-amaya-5th-november-protest-1485543/

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/2...bop-promo-who-will-become-new-1-site-1485517/


Please Note:

I am an American resident and therefore have no direct current interest in Pokerstars keeping its rake structures/game structures and GTD's in place. I am voicing the concern we should all have for the welfare of a game where one can have fun, stimulate your mind and still be reasonably profitable when playing superior poker. If poker becomes just another table game, I won't play and interest will eventually wane to the point where the game will shrink and cease to exist as we know it. That doesn't mean NO changes are needed or NO rake increases can ever happen...but it does mean that gratuitous rake/structure changes undertaken by the de facto monopoly in many parts of the world must be confronted head on, and WE MUST MAKE OUR VOICES HEARD.

If you play at Pokerstars, PLEASE, take this one day off (Nov. 5th) to at least make the point to Amaya leadership people notice when the company takes more from the players. Furthermore, consider if Pokerstars is a place you want to keep giving your money to if no other action is taken by Pstars leadership.

Thank you and good luck at the tables,


Zach
 
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jsh169

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New company that wants more money, I see no surprise here. The sad thing is poker is getting harder and harder, the last thing people need is higher rake.
 
Debi

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I wouldn't exactly call that a mass sitout. 55 people?? Only thing that is going to happen is those 55 people could get their accounts suspended for purposely sitting out.

There are 3 times that many saying they will not be participating.
 
curtinsea

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well first, this won't be effective, and you'll likely get your account suspended for participating. It's happened before.

and second, do you really think it is cool to post links to another forum? That is typically frowned upon.
 
Debi

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Plus - do you have any idea how many Pokerstars players have never heard of 2p2? And how many have heard of it but don't post there and will never see that thread?

They will be absolutely fine on Nov 5.
 
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RamdeeBen

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I wouldn't exactly call that a mass sitout. 55 people?? Only thing that is going to happen is those 55 people could get their accounts suspended for purposely sitting out.

There are 3 times that many saying they will not be participating.

Exactly this.


This isn't going to make a difference to stars at all, it's only going to hurt those taking part in it.
 
A2345Razz

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I wouldn't exactly call that a mass sitout. 55 people?? Only thing that is going to happen is those 55 people could get their accounts suspended for purposely sitting out.

There are 3 times that many saying they will not be participating.

Ok, if you "mass boycott" if you prefer.

DON'T PLAY AT POKERSTARS, AND CONSIDER TAKING PART IN THE SIT OUT.

Also, the 55 is (im assuming) the list of HU players or whatever.....so it isn't like only 55 people will be taking part. Lets be honest, LOTS OF PLAYERS WILL EITHER BE SITTING OUT OR AVOIDING PLAY ON POKERSTARS on the 5TH.

DON'T PLAY ON THE 5TH.
 
A2345Razz

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Exactly this.


This isn't going to make a difference to stars at all, it's only going to hurt those taking part in it.

Where are you guys getting only 55 people will take part....??

There are 55 people or so who are part of a group of players that play a heavily affected format who came together to pledge to a sit out. That in no way, shape or form limits those who will take part to 55.
 
A2345Razz

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well first, this won't be effective, and you'll likely get your account suspended for participating. It's happened before.

and second, do you really think it is cool to post links to another forum? That is typically frowned upon.

Sure, why not?

If there are things of great importance that are posted in other places on the internet, I see no issues with linking those things to this forum.

I am actually shocked at your reaction to pokerstars waging war on the online community.....

"This isn't going to work..."

So what are we risking doing it?

"This has been tried before..."

Actually feed back to Pokerstars has worked before...and again, YOU DON'T NEED TO SIT OUT TO TAKE PART. YOU SIMPLY REFRAIN FROM PLAYING ON THE 5TH OF NOVEMBER.

"Do you think linking other forums......derp derp"

Really, Pokerstars is obviously trying to phase out much profitable play and they are the de facto monopoly in much of the world. Here at home we have barely any online play worth mentioning relative to say canada. Live tournament poker is seeing higher and higher vig and more and more reentry money traps....and your response has to do with linking other forums?

Are you mad?
 
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RamdeeBen

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Where are you guys getting only 55 people will take part....??

There are 55 people or so who are part of a group of players that play a heavily affected format who came together to pledge to a sit out. That in no way, shape or form limits those who will take part to 55.

No idea, just assumed debs was correct in her numbers.

Either way, it doesn't matter how many because stars won't put up with people just sitting out, they will just ban them from the games especially because it will become public knowledge now stars likely will be on the look out on this date for these players and just likely kick them from the games for intentionally sitting out. I'm just finding it hard to believe that much of anything is going to happen which will effect stars more than the people doing it.

I've also said it before in a different thread. If people really dislike stars increase then simply don't play there it's really simple, why are they moaning about it just go to a site you feel is better which there is none in my opinion. I mean surely all the players who are wanting to participate in this sit out and the others who protest the increase, if the just leave the site then this is obviously the best solution as a protest and then stick to their guns and don't play at stars again instead of this sit out garbage. This whole protest won't make a difference in my opinion.
 
A2345Razz

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Plus - do you have any idea how many Pokerstars players have never heard of 2p2? And how many have heard of it but don't post there and will never see that thread?

They will be absolutely fine on Nov 5.

I am confused as to why you are coming out so strongly against this action.

Is it that you agree with Amaya's recent moves against the players and shifting to a more lottery-like poker experience?

Again, no one is saying you HAVE TO SIT OUT TO TAKE PART.....YOU CAN SIMPLY REFRAIN FROM PLAYING.

I should have made that clear in the first post.
 
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Debi

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I am confused as to why you are coming out so strongly against this action.

Is it that you agree with Amaya's recent moves against the players and shifting to a more lottery-like poker experience?

Again, no one is saying you HAVE TO SIT OUT TO TAKE PART.....YOU CAN SIMPLY REFRAIN FROM PLAYING.

I should have made that clear in the first post.

Umm - your reading and comprehension skills are sorely lacking.

All I said is that this "mass" sit-out will be a total failure. It is poorly organized, has minimal participation, most players won't even know about it - and the ones participating will probably have their accounts suspended.

It will have zero impact.

I didn't give an opinion on the move - don't put words in my mouth.

And don't shout in this thread.
 
curtinsea

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Sure, why not?

If there are things of great importance that are posted in other places on the internet, I see no issues with linking those things to this forum.

Well if Dakota let it slide, I guess it's alright

I am actually shocked at your reaction to pokerstars waging war on the online community.....

I'll never be accused of being a Pokerstars fanboy, but that they are 'waging war on the online community' is a preposterous assertion.

"This isn't going to work..."

So what are we risking doing it?

"This has been tried before..."

Actually feed back to Pokerstars has worked before...and again, YOU DON'T NEED TO SIT OUT TO TAKE PART. YOU SIMPLY REFRAIN FROM PLAYING ON THE 5TH OF NOVEMBER.

If you don't like what Pokerstars has done, PLAY SOMEWHERE ELSE. That is really the only thing you can do to use market forces to get a point across. Sitting out one day, by only a couple hundred (I'm being generous) players will not even be a blip on the radar. Their control of the market share will not be diminished, therefore what you are complaining about will go unchanged.

Play somewhere else, that is your only option. And if you like Pokerstars too much, anyway, to do that, then suck it up and quit crying already.

Really, Pokerstars is obviously trying to phase out much profitable play and they are the de facto monopoly in much of the world. Here at home we have barely any online play worth mentioning relative to say Canada. Live tournament poker is seeing higher and higher vig and more and more reentry money traps....and your response has to do with linking other forums?

Are you mad?

THEN PLAY SOMEWHERE ELSE! That is how you break the de facto monopoly.
 
Debi

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Where are you guys getting only 55 people will take part....??

There are 55 people or so who are part of a group of players that play a heavily affected format who came together to pledge to a sit out. That in no way, shape or form limits those who will take part to 55.

You linked us to a thread with a poll in it - only 55 people have checked yes they will participate.

Sure - some of the maybe's might do it and the number will go up before the 5th - but it still won't be enough to make an impact. Right now the number is 55.
 
A2345Razz

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You linked us to a thread with a poll in it - only 55 people have checked yes they will participate.

Sure - some of the maybe's might do it and the number will go up before the 5th - but it still won't be enough to make an impact. Right now the number is 55.


Wow, were you the one remarking on poor comprehension earlier, wow.

So, there was a poll which only X amount of people took part in that questioned those people as to their actions personally...how on earth could any logically thinking human construe that to mean only X people will be taking part globally?

That is like saying a presidential election poll where 6000 people take part and 50% say they will be voting for Hillary Clinton means that only 3000 people will be voting for Hillary Clinton.

AGAIN, you don't need to sit out on the tables to take part in this action.

Not sure how many times this needs to be repeated.

I am in shock at how many people seem to be on Stars' side on this one. Oh, and if I was in position to play at Stars, I would withdraw my money eventually and put it in 888 or another competitor's site if no further comments or actions from Amaya were forthcoming.

This is part of a process and we need to at least let Amaya know a decent portion of the volume (not players) comes from people who know what they're up to. This isn't meant to cripple Amaya or bring them to their knees...it's just meant to get their attention.
 
S3mper

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Does it matter if the sit out works or not?

The point would be to get Stars to realize that players won't stand for stiffing players to make more $$$. Will they lower the rake back down and reverse its recent changes? Probably not but it may stop them from upping the rake another 2.5% down the road.

Stars has lots of reps who stay current in the forums, they will see stuff like this because its there. What would be bad is if members say nothing and do nothing they report back.. "Yeah they didn't really seem to care" "Alright let's up it again"

My biggest worry is that Stars was the white knight, They bought up Full Tilts debt got players paid. They have made a reputation of having the players back and having pokers back. Now under new management they are taking the "grab your ankles" approach to players and poker.

Hopefully the majority of people don't blindly follow pokerstars because of their past when its no longer the same Stars. Doesn't have to be a bad thing that it's no longer the same Stars but so far with, super affiliate cutting, Player benefit cutting and increased rake it doesn't seem like it is.

I like Chocolate.


Edit: Making sure Stars knows doesn't mean organizing sit outs and stuff but just being vocal on the subject.

Double edit: I still like chocolate
 
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Debi

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Wow, were you the one remarking on poor comprehension earlier, wow.

So, there was a poll which only X amount of people took part in that questioned those people as to their actions personally...how on earth could any logically thinking human construe that to mean only X people will be taking part globally?

That is like saying a presidential election poll where 6000 people take part and 50% say they will be voting for Hillary Clinton means that only 3000 people will be voting for Hillary Clinton.

AGAIN, you don't need to sit out on the tables to take part in this action.

Not sure how many times this needs to be repeated.

I am in shock at how many people seem to be on Stars' side on this one. Oh, and if I was in position to play at Stars, I would withdraw my money eventually and put it in 888 or another competitor's site if no further comments or actions from Amaya were forthcoming.

This is part of a process and we need to at least let Amaya know a decent portion of the volume (not players) comes from people who know what they're up to. This isn't meant to cripple Amaya or bring them to their knees...it's just meant to get their attention.

Once again you don't read what you are commenting on and make unfounded deductions.

It is 55 people who have so far said yes in the thread - I am well aware of what that means.

And all of us are well aware that you don't have to sit out to participate - no need to keep repeating it. I read that in the thread days ago.

That thread has gotten very very little attention on a 2p2 scale of attention.

However the poll is a very strong indication of how weakly supported this will be. And you are still ignoring the fact that most players at PS will know nothing about this - and that most who know about it will not participate.

Just because we think this "sitout" will be a failure does not mean we support Amaya's actions. It means we think this sitout will be failure - your failure to grasp that is starting to get silly.
 
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RamdeeBen

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Does it matter if the sit out works or not?

The point would be to get Stars to realize that players won't stand for stiffing players to make more $$$. Will they lower the rake back down and reverse its recent changes? Probably not but it may stop them from upping the rake another 2.5% down the road.


I like Chocolate.

Well clearly they are standing for it because they are still visiting their site and probably still playing just doing a daft sit out on this date.

As I've said if you don't like it and really want to make a difference then you quit the site and play on somewhere else. None of this empty thread crap of "I'm in protest, I sit out! Yet I will still play, just trying to get you to reduce the rake"

Just move on, different site simple right?

You don't go to a shop for years on end, see they increased their prices or have terrible customer service and continue going back and kicking up a fuss about how terrible they are. You just go shop elsewhere which you feel is better.

Fact remains, stars is still the best site out there even with increases it's still the lowest raked site so I don't get it. Obviously most won't leave the site because they will be paying more elsewhere.
 
PokerFunKid

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I agree that it won't help since there are a lot of people who will play regardless of the sit out protest. But i'm sad to hear pokerstars might ban your account if you're taking part. We all should have the rights to protest against this.
 
S3mper

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Well clearly they are standing for it because they are still visiting their site and probably still playing just doing a daft sit out on this date.

As I've said if you don't like it and really want to make a difference then you quit the site and play on somewhere else. None of this empty thread crap of "I'm in protest, I sit out! Yet I will still play, just trying to get you to reduce the rake"

Just move on, different site simple right?

You don't go to a shop for years on end, see they increased their prices or have terrible customer service and continue going back and kicking up a fuss about how terrible they are. You just go shop elsewhere which you feel is better.

Fact remains, stars is still the best site out there even with increases it's still the lowest raked site so I don't get it. Obviously most won't leave the site because they will be paying more elsewhere.

Well I'm an American so not playing Stars is not a choice for me lol.

I'm not worried about the current raise in rake because you said it they are still the cheapest out there. What I'm worried about is where will they stop?

I would hate to be waiting all this time to be able to play on Stars again and then when it finally gets here it'll be too hard to make any profit with increased rake and lowered benefits ontop of the taxes and tougher competition.
 
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RamdeeBen

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I agree that it won't help since there are a lot of people who will play regardless of the sit out protest. But i'm sad to hear pokerstars might ban your account if you're taking part. We all should have the rights to protest against this.

I must really be missing something. Of course they are correct to ban/kick people just taking up space with no intention of playing.

Of course you have the right to protest if you want but as I keep repeating just don't play there that seems the most logical protest..If all these players wanting to sit out just actually withdrew their funds and didn't come back, played on other sites this is going to have more effect on them than the sit out. A sit out will have little impact and these players likely will just accept and continue playing on the site so effectively just an empty threat by players upset with a rake increase.
 
Debi

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Does it matter if the sit out works or not?

The point would be to get Stars to realize that players won't stand for stiffing players to make more $$$. Will they lower the rake back down and reverse its recent changes? Probably not but it may stop them from upping the rake another 2.5% down the road.

Stars has lots of reps who stay current in the forums, they will see stuff like this because its there. What would be bad is if members say nothing and do nothing they report back.. "Yeah they didn't really seem to care" "Alright let's up it again"

My biggest worry is that Stars was the white knight, They bought up Full Tilts debt got players paid. They have made a reputation of having the players back and having pokers back. Now under new management they are taking the "grab your ankles" approach to players and poker.

Hopefully the majority of people don't blindly follow pokerstars because of their past when its no longer the same Stars. Doesn't have to be a bad thing that it's no longer the same Stars but so far with, super affiliate cutting, Player benefit cutting and increased rake it doesn't seem like it is.

I like Chocolate.


Edit: Making sure Stars knows doesn't mean organizing sit outs and stuff but just being vocal on the subject.

Double edit: I still like chocolate

The sitout won't impact this decision or future decisions. Nobody is saying don't do it - just saying it will be a failure.

Pokerstars already knows that players are upset. If players aren't happy with them and want to make some kind of statement - they can just play somewhere else. No need for a low grade sit out - just go play somewhere else. There is no better way to make a statement than that.

But even then - they are vastly overestimating Pokerstar's dependence on them.
 
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RamdeeBen

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Well I'm an American so not playing Stars is not a choice for me lol.

I'm not worried about the current raise in rake because you said it they are still the cheapest out there. What I'm worried about is where will they stop?

I would hate to be waiting all this time to be able to play on Stars again and then when it finally gets here it'll be too hard to make any profit with increased rake and lowered benefits onto of the taxes and tougher competition.

Of course they can't keep increasing the rake ridiculous amounts as it would be unprofitable. The thing I'm struggling to understand is the people moaning about it yet it's still the cheapest and IF they just continued to increase the rake where it would make the games unbeatable then I'd of course just play else where but as things stand, I still feel stars is fine and cheaper than all my other sites I use.
 
Debi

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Well clearly they are standing for it because they are still visiting their site and probably still playing just doing a daft sit out on this date.

As I've said if you don't like it and really want to make a difference then you quit the site and play on somewhere else. None of this empty thread crap of "I'm in protest, I sit out! Yet I will still play, just trying to get you to reduce the rake"

Just move on, different site simple right?

You don't go to a shop for years on end, see they increased their prices or have terrible customer service and continue going back and kicking up a fuss about how terrible they are. You just go shop elsewhere which you feel is better.

Fact remains, stars is still the best site out there even with increases it's still the lowest raked site so I don't get it. Obviously most won't leave the site because they will be paying more elsewhere.

I must really be missing something. Of course they are correct to ban/kick people just taking up space with no intention of playing.

Of course you have the right to protest if you want but as I keep repeating just don't play there that seems the most logical protest..If all these players wanting to sit out just actually withdrew their funds and didn't come back, played on other sites this is going to have more effect on them than the sit out. A sit out will have little impact and these players likely will just accept and continue playing on the site so effectively just an empty threat by players upset with a rake increase.

A voice of reason in this thread. :)
 
A2345Razz

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Once again you don't read what you are commenting on and make unfounded deductions.

It is 55 people who have so far said yes in the thread - I am well aware of what that means.

And all of us are well aware that you don't have to sit out to participate - no need to keep repeating it. I read that in the thread days ago.

That thread has gotten very very little attention on a 2p2 scale of attention.

However the poll is a very strong indication of how weakly supported this will be. And you are still ignoring the fact that most players at PS will know nothing about this - and that most who know about it will not participate.

Just because we think this "sitout" will be a failure does not mean we support Amaya's actions. It means we think this sitout will be failure - your failure to grasp that is starting to get silly.

I really don't need to go back and forth with you on this, but in the above it is clear-once you get through the bluster of someone who has realized they were logically owned- that in fact you had no basis for pretending to know the approximate number of people taking part in sanctions against Pokerstars globally.....

I'll leave it at that.

As for the thread not being popular, it is currently at the top tier of the first page, and has a total of ~40000 views in 3 days. That is super popular and I would bet puts it at the 95th percentile for all posts on NVG in popularity. (not just the ones you see on the first page which are obviously biased towards popularity...)

Anyway, so are you going to make a comment as to Pokerstars actions or going to snipe on the particulars of a single post? Why you guys are so preoccupied with poo pooing the process, but totally ignoring the problem confronting all of us is beyond me.

We'll be waiting....your thoughts on Amaya's latest money grab?
 
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