**Link**Some of poker's top minds on the Amayastars changes....

A2345Razz

A2345Razz

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 4, 2012
Total posts
1,190
Chips
0
While some on here would like you the consumer to believe the Amayastars rake hike/money grab is a minor issue that should just be accepted as the cost of doing business, others in the community-including several of the most respected minds in online poker- seem to feel quite differently.

It's hard to know exactly how online poker will be affected by the changes, but what I do when I am not an expert in a field and have a question, is usually consult/search out the opinions of experts.....luckily for us in the internet age, we have them right here for all of us to see:

http://www.pokernews.com/news/2014/11/pros-comment-on-stars-rake-increase-19706.htm

Highlights-

"I don’t like the changes thus far and more than that, I fear for what’s yet to come if this is an indication of Amaya’s business strategy."

Phil Galfond


".....it feels like pokerstars is turning more and more into a place where only the house wins — which is really bad for the game of poker."

Ola "Odd Oddsen" Amundsgard (top 50 cash game player in the world)


"Essentially everything Amaya has done since purchasing PokerStars has diminished their brand — robbing their players via foreign exchange fees especially — but this is a pretty big statement that says, 'We're no longer the world's best player-first site. We're now like many other sites — shortsighted, money hungry, and not overly concerned with customer service.'"


Andred Seidman aka Balugawhale


"This is terrible for the players, especially those who play on a regular basis."

Jonathan Little (noted Author and WPT player of the Yr)
 
curtinsea

curtinsea

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 28, 2010
Total posts
495
Awards
1
Chips
2
only if you are under the mistaken belief that the top online pros are really that relevant to the health of the poker economy. What online poker needs to survive are losing players willing to deposit.

poker is zero sum. Every dollar won is a dollar lost. If the total amount taken in rake AND the total amount withdrawn is not covered, dollar for dollar, by deposits, then the total amount of money in play is in decline, and thus so is the game.

Far too long, sites have catered to volume players, and while that was the thing to do when the game was growing, it no longer is the case. They simply cannot focus on rewarding a few volume player players and just take for granted the new money will come.

Focus now will be on rec players, incentives geared towards deposits rather than volume, and rake increase to make up for loss of volume.

I grant you, it's not great for the grinders. But the old days of online poker are gone forever. We can never go back to 2005. The industry will need to adapt or it will fail.
 
A2345Razz

A2345Razz

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 4, 2012
Total posts
1,190
Chips
0
But for the most part these players were commenting about the general effect the steps Amayastars' rake hike/money grab will have overall on the game.

Heck, a couple of them came right out and admitted they wouldn't be affected much by these particular steps by Amayastars.

Did you read the comments?

Either you didn't , or you have some issues with believing someone like Phil Galfond can speak honestly about the differences between what are good for him and what is good for the health of poker online overall.

As for the 2nd part of what you posted, I completely agree with you that we need less benefits for volume players and more for recs who play regularly/semi regularly.....of course hiking the rake on hypers and SH games and Spin and Gos and not reallocating any funds to support the experience of the players we want to help, doesn't do a thing to enhance the experience or longevity of a losing players deposit experience. OTC, it shortens the amount of play they get, and probably lowers the liquidity they experience on stars eventually.


So I am confused what you mean when you say, "Focus now will be on rec players, incentives geared towards deposits rather than volume."

What are talking about? You seem to be under some delusion that Amayastars will be coupling these RAKE HIKES with some grand program to help rec players/beginning players have a better time....


Where are these steps?



only if you are under the mistaken belief that the top online pros are really that relevant to the health of the poker economy. What online poker needs to survive are losing players willing to deposit.

poker is zero sum. Every dollar won is a dollar lost. If the total amount taken in rake AND the total amount withdrawn is not covered, dollar for dollar, by deposits, then the total amount of money in play is in decline, and thus so is the game.

Far too long, sites have catered to volume players, and while that was the thing to do when the game was growing, it no longer is the case. They simply cannot focus on rewarding a few volume player players and just take for granted the new money will come.

Focus now will be on rec players, incentives geared towards deposits rather than volume, and rake increase to make up for loss of volume.

I grant you, it's not great for the grinders. But the old days of online poker are gone forever. We can never go back to 2005. The industry will need to adapt or it will fail.
 
NoWuckingFurries

NoWuckingFurries

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 18, 2007
Total posts
3,834
Awards
1
Chips
29
I would have liked to comment here, but bearing in mind OP's overly personal response to curtinsea's perfectly valid comments it's probably better for me to start a new thread instead.
 
Ducbim

Ducbim

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Total posts
150
Awards
1
Chips
8
It is really sad if Pokerstars turns into a casino site. First is spin and go, now they introduce roulette and blackjack, aside from raising the rake :D Bad became worse for grinders. The only thing we can hope for is Pokerstars hosting some great promotion like 1 billion tourney or mile stone hand. Without generous promotion like that sooner or later players will just walk away.
 
A2345Razz

A2345Razz

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 4, 2012
Total posts
1,190
Chips
0
I would have liked to comment here, but bearing in mind OP's overly personal response to curtinsea's perfectly valid comments it's probably better for me to start a new thread instead.

Thanks for chiming in with a personal jab at someone you were accusing of taking personal jabs.

Makes tonnes of sense, lol.


I hope this was a level.

Why don't you make a thread analyzing top pros responses to these "changes" that are soaking the players and only going to continue to erode games that are down significantly yr over yr industry-wide. I am still waiting for Curtisnsea to enumerate the various ways Pstars will be reinvesting all these new resources to help the casual lower volume/low to midstakes players who we all agree drive a sustainable ecosystem in poker.


**Looks at watch**
 
curtinsea

curtinsea

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 28, 2010
Total posts
495
Awards
1
Chips
2
Thanks for chiming in with a personal jab at someone you were accusing of taking personal jabs.

I am still waiting for Curtisnsea to enumerate the various ways Pokerstars will be reinvesting all these new resources to help the casual lower volume/low to midstakes players who we all agree drive a sustainable ecosystem in poker.


**Looks at watch**

curtinsea had chosen to simply ignore this obvious straw man, rather than point out to you that I never claimed Pokerstars was going to reinvest any new resources to help the casual player. Since I never said such efforts were going to be made, I see no need to enumerate anything.

What I said was their focus will be more on attracting deposits than grinders, and I believe that will become apparent going forward.
 
A2345Razz

A2345Razz

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 4, 2012
Total posts
1,190
Chips
0
curtinsea had chosen to simply ignore this obvious straw man, rather than point out to you that I never claimed Pokerstars was going to reinvest any new resources to help the casual player. Since I never said such efforts were going to be made, I see no need to enumerate anything.

What I said was their focus will be more on attracting deposits than grinders, and I believe that will become apparent going forward.

I'll be patiently waiting a quantitative analysis of how much is spent on marketing versus how much extra is taken out of the community by the recent grab by Amayastars.

Oh, and these steps will be coming......when exactly?

The ones you alluded to here:

Focus now will be on rec players, incentives geared towards deposits rather than volume, and rake increase to make up for loss of volume.

We should all be aware huge incentives will be forthcoming from Amayastars for depositing recs.


**holds breath and waits**
 
veltins

veltins

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Total posts
2,756
Awards
2
JP
Chips
66
Anything pokerstars does to bring new recreational Players , i will always Support that. cos more recreational Players Need to Play poker . otherwise there wont be any fun.
 
Debi

Debi

Forum Admin
Administrator
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Total posts
74,640
Awards
20
Chips
1,331
I would have liked to comment here, but bearing in mind OP's overly personal response to curtinsea's perfectly valid comments it's probably better for me to start a new thread instead.

Thanks for chiming in with a personal jab at someone you were accusing of taking personal jabs.

Makes tonnes of sense, lol.


I hope this was a level.

Why don't you make a thread analyzing top pros responses to these "changes" that are soaking the players and only going to continue to erode games that are down significantly yr over yr industry-wide. I am still waiting for Curtisnsea to enumerate the various ways Pokerstars will be reinvesting all these new resources to help the casual lower volume/low to midstakes players who we all agree drive a sustainable ecosystem in poker.


**Looks at watch**

I'll be patiently waiting a quantitative analysis of how much is spent on marketing versus how much extra is taken out of the community by the recent grab by Amayastars.

Oh, and these steps will be coming......when exactly?

The ones you alluded to here:

Focus now will be on rec players, incentives geared towards deposits rather than volume, and rake increase to make up for loss of volume.

We should all be aware huge incentives will be forthcoming from Amayastars for depositing recs.


**holds breath and waits**

Learn to be respectful to people in thread discussions and you might get some responses.

**holds breath and waits**
 
PokerStars Reviews: Français, Nederlands, Deutsch, Dansk, Italiano, Español, Polski, Norsk, Português, Svenska - PokerStars Mobile - Deutsch Mobile - PS Casino
Top