OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
N'yeah... Salty Joe has always been a little bit of a grumpy old man.
He's got some valid points about bumhunting, I don't think that's something that's necessarily going to kill poker as a whole though - it's more of a problem for the higher stakes games.
Good point about at least being personable at the tables too but again, that's an issue that only really affects live games.
He's obviously got a bee in his bonnet about how a wsop Main Event winner should act. He did great things as an ambassador for the game, particularly here in Australia, but at the same time I don't begrudge someone like a Peter Eastgate who just wants to take their money and get out of the limelight.
As for poker in general dying I don't think I agree with him either. What I think actually happened was poker's popularity was greatly over-inflated during the boom when he won his title, and it was always going to regress back towards the norm afterwards. For a lot of people poker was a fad, and after a while those people just moved on to the next fad. That's natural.
He's got some valid points about bumhunting, I don't think that's something that's necessarily going to kill poker as a whole though - it's more of a problem for the higher stakes games.
Good point about at least being personable at the tables too but again, that's an issue that only really affects live games.
He's obviously got a bee in his bonnet about how a wsop Main Event winner should act. He did great things as an ambassador for the game, particularly here in Australia, but at the same time I don't begrudge someone like a Peter Eastgate who just wants to take their money and get out of the limelight.
As for poker in general dying I don't think I agree with him either. What I think actually happened was poker's popularity was greatly over-inflated during the boom when he won his title, and it was always going to regress back towards the norm afterwards. For a lot of people poker was a fad, and after a while those people just moved on to the next fad. That's natural.
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credsfan03
Visionary
Silver Level
Very good comments. I believe when online poker gets legalized that it will start another poker boom and the popularity will increase once again.
EvertonGirl
Professional Fish
Loyaler
I don't agree poker is dying either, I do agree with what he said about the game being about fun and he doesn't like when he see someone at the table and being all miserable and such, buy yea he can be a grump lol
I love it when theres a bit of fun at a live table, like when the Chinese man @ the WSOP was saying ladies come in I love the ladies when he was waiting for his queen to hit the board, can't remember his name but he was very entertaining to watch
I love it when theres a bit of fun at a live table, like when the Chinese man @ the WSOP was saying ladies come in I love the ladies when he was waiting for his queen to hit the board, can't remember his name but he was very entertaining to watch
wagon596
Legend
Bronze Level
Some of the young crowd that was brought into poker from Moneymaker and Raymer winning are now Pros. So the nature of the beast is if the non-pros hadn't won, most of these guys wouldn't be here "Killing the Sport". So it's a Catch 22.
I really don't think poker is dying, if so, it's a slow death. Just my thoughts.
I really don't think poker is dying, if so, it's a slow death. Just my thoughts.
AlfieAA
Legend
Silver Level
Pretty much blame poker geeks who invented huds and all this poker softare for killing the game lol...that's life though, things evolve and people need to keep up with everthing all the time to succeed...
Everyone wishes poker was soft like it was years ago but with all this technology now its only gonna get harder and harder.....basically we missed the boat and everyones solid (low/mid/high stakes) for their respective levels.....
Everyone wishes poker was soft like it was years ago but with all this technology now its only gonna get harder and harder.....basically we missed the boat and everyones solid (low/mid/high stakes) for their respective levels.....
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don1980
Rock Star
Silver Level
Online poker is dying cause of the DOJ closing out poker sites. In few years if nothing is done to stop them, they will be no online gambling.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
This is Joe Hachem, so take it with a grain of salt and remember that he's mostly talking about live games.
Even so, I think he does have a point about welcoming fish to the tables (both live, and online) - the ship may have sailed long ago on the easy money in poker, but we don't make our lives any easier by bumhunting and making life miserable for casual players.
Zorba
27
Platinum Level
AlfieAA
Legend
Silver Level
absolutely....i could never understand when a 'so called reg' would berate a fish for sucking out....talking about online, i see it all the time...
yeah its annoying when you get sucked out on but theres no need to chase the fish away with insults....instead say 'nh' and isolate them whenever you can and get the money back lol....quite simple....the eastern europeans are the worst for trolling in the chatbox.
AtiFCOD
Legend
Loyaler
Till I see the regular 60K GTD PS tournaments becomes over 100K prize pool tournament after everybody registered (with more than 10000 players), there is no problem with poker. Poker is getting more popular year by year even if some governments try to ban it...
SeaRun
Visionary
Silver Level
If you look a nearly all sports, the top players, and top teams for the most part all become ambassadors for their particular sport. If I look at the 2 sports that interest me most, how would golf be if the Phil Micklesons and Adam Scotts didn't be a part of the promoting the sport away from the official tourneys, or darts when guys like John Lowe or Jockey Wilson (I've met and spoke with both and were wonderful ambassadors for darts in their day) didn't want anything to do with the public.
I didn't know Peter Eastgate was a private person like that, and it's certainly his right, but I do believe there should be some requirement for players to promote the sport in which they earn their living. I agree with Hachem, where would poker be now if guys like Moneymaker and Raymer hid away all the time???
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Evildrum
Rising Star
Silver Level
I agree with a few things he is saying about poker being dead,lot of people are sitting here waiting for a next big wave and I do not see it coming. Would put it about the same chance Bitcoin is relevant in 5 years.
What needs to be looked at is how the global community has made it harder for online and that did not happen over night. So dont expect it to change any time soon either.
Other aspect is the regular folk we all refer to now know that a lot of games where rigged against them,not by the site but other players. All you need to do is go play live a few days in a row to watch how scummy a lot of the regs are.
Would you honestly measure yourself up against any of them as the standard to live by?
What needs to be looked at is how the global community has made it harder for online and that did not happen over night. So dont expect it to change any time soon either.
Other aspect is the regular folk we all refer to now know that a lot of games where rigged against them,not by the site but other players. All you need to do is go play live a few days in a row to watch how scummy a lot of the regs are.
Would you honestly measure yourself up against any of them as the standard to live by?
IPlay
Bum hunts 25NL
Silver Level
Like I said in the other thread
Sorry we(the younger generation) are very competitive and like to win. Who plays a game to lose? Losing is not fun. Since poker is a game where there is a skill gap there will always be fish and pros. Its just the way it is.
You could also argue that the average American has less money to "blow" these days and people are not really wanting to gamble it away.
I will add to this post though that these young players don't have money to gamble away so we have to be winners in order to play the game we enjoy.
Sorry we(the younger generation) are very competitive and like to win. Who plays a game to lose? Losing is not fun. Since poker is a game where there is a skill gap there will always be fish and pros. Its just the way it is.
You could also argue that the average American has less money to "blow" these days and people are not really wanting to gamble it away.
I will add to this post though that these young players don't have money to gamble away so we have to be winners in order to play the game we enjoy.
shanest
Legend
Platinum Level
Yea that was a strange comment. But i think he makes valid points on bumhunting
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credsfan03
Visionary
Silver Level
One of the biggest things that is wrong with poker right now is re entries. A casual player is rarely ever going to win when he can only afford one buy in vs pros shooting 5-10 bullets. We need to limit re entries to only high rollers.
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PlayedYou73
Visionary
Silver Level
I'm not sure if it's "dying" but it is certainly nowhere close to the popularity it had online just a few short years ago. Chalk that up to government intervention for one, and some shady activities on the part of the poker sites, affiliates, and some of the sponsored players as well.
OzExorcist
Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
"Bumhunting" is when someone deliberately seeks out bad players ("bums" to play against), and insists on only playing when those bad players are in the game. When the bad player busts and leaves the table, the bumhunter will usually leave immediately as well, because they don't want to risk their money against the other players at the table.
It's a problem because it can make the fish/bums feel harrassed, and make them walk away from the tables for good. It can also result in games breaking prematurely - if the bumhunters hung around a while longer the game would keep going, and other fish could join. If they table breaks though, nobody gets any more action.
I take your point, but poker is very different to golf or darts. In most other professional sports, players trace most of their their paydays back to sponsors and advertisers. It's the sponsors who put up the money that eventually ends up in prize pools or pay player contracts.
Doing the right thing by those sponsors is the sensible thing for them to do - without them, there effectively wouldn't be a sport.
Poker is very different because the players provide their own prize money.
Joe's point was that the two don't need to be mutually exclusive though. You can be a winning player without berrating the fish and driving them away. He specifically mentioned Antonio Esfandiari as a guy who people like to play with, even though they know they'll probably lose their money, because he's a fun guy to be around and makes them feel welcomed.