Sharkscope gets dealt a blow?

How do you feel about sites tracking your every play?

  • I don't like having every hand I play tracked/sold to others to use against me.

    Votes: 8 66.7%
  • I don't care that some site is doing this without my express permission, or that I am being tracked

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • I think that individuals should be allowed to opt out like entire sites can

    Votes: 8 66.7%
  • Now that I think about it, maybe that "donkey" just had a good bead on me! Not cool!

    Votes: 1 8.3%
  • I don't think this is or could be a disadvantage to me, so I do not care

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .
Michael Paler

Michael Paler

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Seems not everyone is happy that a third party tracks every game you play in and then makes the information available for sale to anyone willing to pay. Here is the story:

http://pokerfuse.com/news/media-and-software/888-forces-removal-of-all-data-from-sharkscope/?utm_source=Pokerfuse+Weekly+Newsletter&utm_campaign=3d35d90d31-6_27_136_27_2013&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_192c837664-3d35d90d31-336847989

I say good for 888. This is total BS in my view. While you expect someone you are playing with to keep track of you, the mass data mining is just not right. If other players are not allowed to do it, why should an outside agent be allowed to as well as profit from it? Ask yourself;

1. Will sharkscope share in the profits they make off of your stats? No, not hardly.

2. Do you also realize this allows other players who have never played you before to have a complete dossier on your play, in which to use against you in a game?

3. So, this damn site is actually costing you money!

Now, think about that; I always hear people berating bad beats. Well, were they donkey's being donkey's? Or, were they players sitting there able to pull up enough info on your play that they (or a program) could make a real good recommendation against you based of of these stats? Could a prediction be made on if you are bluffing, betting a big pair or small, c-betting with air? Could it detect betting tells and other tells you are not even aware you might have? You bet your sweet bippy, baby!

Isn't this the whole point of this site in the first place? So, how much has sharkscope cost you?/what do you think about it?
 
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RamdeeBen

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I don't understand you.

sharkscope is a tracking site for those reasons. It's a free service (in the sense of tracking results, if you want this option), of course they will need to fund this. You can track your own results or not, whichever you choose too is your option as a player.

If you don't want to use SS, then don't..they have the option. It's as simple as that. Not sure why 888 didn't go for the proposal of making players who WISH to have their results displayed, optional as it doesn't benefit anyone. In fact, a player wanting to show he's a winning player, could hinder him getting games..therefore, costs them but they have that choice themselves to decide.
 
MasterOfDisaster

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Better to use a free service like OPR, Macropoker or Topshark.
 
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luke124

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i used sharkscope years ago but a friend told me about opr and ive been using that since its a good site
 
SofaKingCrazy

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I guess I'm confused. Are you saying these sites can track individual hands? I thought they only track games played and wins/losses, nothing that would give away HOW you play.
 
buzzmania

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i to use to use ss but i dont play enough anymore to worry about it one way or the other...
 
Michael Paler

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I guess I'm confused. Are you saying these sites can track individual hands? I thought they only track games played and wins/losses, nothing that would give away HOW you play.

Do they? Even so, It is still enough to get a read on what type of player you are up against, or at least that's what they make it sound like.

This is the additional HUD you can get with a subscription and how they advertise it....

"Always have a read on your opponents
Use the HUD and there will be no more typing in of long player names. All players are scanned automatically for you.

Customize which statistics you want to display and move them to what ever position you choose by clicking and dragging them. Create custom rules for different player types and assign them colors and icons for quick recognition.

View each player’s profit history, ROI and stake levels graphs in the HUD application by clicking on a player name.

Use any of the advanced filters available on the SharkScope website to create custom data filters for your HUD display to only display statistics from relevant game types."

Even that little bit of info can be extremely useful, can it not? I'm not sure: do they scan in every hand played or not? I thought they did. I could be wrong, but they have to watch the entire game, start to finish, to get those stats. How does that work in a cash game without inevitably seeing every hand played?
 
Michael Paler

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I don't understand you.

sharkscope is a tracking site for those reasons. It's a free service (in the sense of tracking results, if you want this option), of course they will need to fund this. You can track your own results or not, whichever you choose too is your option as a player.

If you don't want to use SS, then don't..they have the option. It's as simple as that. Not sure why 888 didn't go for the proposal of making players who WISH to have their results displayed, optional as it doesn't benefit anyone. In fact, a player wanting to show he's a winning player, could hinder him getting games..therefore, costs them but they have that choice themselves to decide.

That's one of my points. They are not a non-profit entity and they are therefore using my information to make a profit. And there is no option, that I know of, for me to opt out. I never even opted in. Or am I wrong on that? Because if I can "opt out" I will.

Also: It's only free for a while: "5 free searches remaining. Join now to get more searches/day and to unlock advanced features."

Now, do you know if those "advance features" are also free? And don't those features go above and beyond just the stats you listed?

I think the gist of these sites is to not only improve your game, but to give you an edge over your competition without having to work at it yourself to do so.
 
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Michael Paler

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i to use to use ss but i dont play enough anymore to worry about it one way or the other...

Fair enough. But you also do not mind that your information is being used to profit a company without your permission?
 
Poker Orifice

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I guess I'm confused. Are you saying these sites can track individual hands? I thought they only track games played and wins/losses, nothing that would give away HOW you play.
They do only track results. That site does not track how individual hands are played.
OP is making statements without knowing what he is talking about.

888Poker seems to attempt to cater to the recreational donk/noob but I think they fail in many aspects (ie. their tourney structures are the complete sh1ts, except for some of the higher buyin stuff; they limit you to the number of tables you can play on (I think it's 6 these days).
 
Poker Orifice

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Pretty much every question in your survey does not even pertain to Sharkscope.
(you could however consider these questions for a site like PokerTableRatings)
 
Michael Paler

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Pretty much every question in your survey does not even pertain to Sharkscope.
(you could however consider these questions for a site like PokerTableRatings)

Just some general questions pertaining the the issue, not just one site. But, you are right, so fair enough. It's not really an official poll.

I just found out I can opt out and have done so. So, that is nice to know. But it is a bit aggravating that I have to go tell someone not to do something I did not give permission for them to do in the first place.

I wonder, however: How many who do not mind that this is being done, would feel the same way if say, our Government was doing something similar, like keeping track of what we do and then selling it on to others....not that they would ever do anything like that, of course...:D
 
Michael Paler

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They do only track results. That site does not track how individual hands are played.
OP is making statements without knowing what he is talking about.

888Poker seems to attempt to cater to the recreational donk/noob but I think they fail in many aspects (ie. their tourney structures are the complete sh1ts, except for some of the higher buyin stuff; they limit you to the number of tables you can play on (I think it's 6 these days).

Is that not the point of having a forum? Let me know when I am wrong? Throw what I think out there, agree, disagree? I am glad you corrected me, I am not all knowing or even close to perfect, obviously, lol.
 
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888 will lose a lot of regs over this I imagine.

Why not just have the opt-in opt-out option like Stars have etc?
 
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xXShannonAXx

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doesnt worry me everything we do online these days is tracked so tracking our poker hands is pretty much the same as them tracking all the other stuff we search type download etc online
 
Blobweird123

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I wonder, however: How many who do not mind that this is being done, would feel the same way if say, our Government was doing something similar, like keeping track of what we do and then selling it on to others....not that they would ever do anything like that, of course...:D

What does this have to do with the thread?

Sharkscope doesn't track hands.

/thread
 
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xXShannonAXx

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Originally Posted by Michael Paler
I wonder, however: How many who do not mind that this is being done, would feel the same way if say, our Government was doing something similar, like keeping track of what we do and then selling it on to others....not that they would ever do anything like that, of course..

well not that i have to worry much in australia but if people where to try and circumvent the restrictions of gambling online over in the usa i could see this possibly being a problem for citizens there
 
Daniel72

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These tracking sites like sharkscope and OPR are very important for stakers and horses, nowadays tons of Players are backed (staked) in tournaments and sit-and-goes.
 
Michael Paler

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These tracking sites like sharkscope and OPR are very important for stakers and horses, nowadays tons of Players are backed (staked) in tournaments and sit-and-goes.

I don't have a problem if people want to use tracking software while in a game. I actually hope they do. I think that it can be as great a weakness as it can be a strength if not used properly. Same thing for a tracking site.

Yet simply mining everyones stats, I mean, hey, if I tried that the sites would ban me. And they do not notify anyone and ask if they would like to partake, its just "here it is, like it or not, come and get it". If you do not want to partake, you have to extract yourself from it on your own.

I notice that when you do opt out they insta-move into pushy salesman mode, the screens change to; "if you are not part of this, you will not be eligible for our grand sweepstake give away" or some other cheap tactic in a desperate attempt to get you to stay. That is great. They are making a profit, that is ok. However, by touting a grand total of number of players tracked, they misled many into thinking that alone is an advantage. They track more worthless and outright bad players as they do good ones.

So why not simply offer it as subscription based service to serve the stakers of poker players? Probably started out like this and now they are unhappy with a set amount of profit and are trying to increase that. That is fine with me, I just do not think you should be able to do things that would get a regular player banned by going against the player agreements we all all must adhere to.
 
Poker Orifice

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I don't have a problem if people want to use tracking software while in a game. I actually hope they do. I think that it can be as great a weakness as it can be a strength if not used properly. Same thing for a tracking site.
How do you figure it would be a weakness to use a tracking site?
. However, by touting a grand total of number of players tracked, they misled many into thinking that alone is an advantage. They track more worthless and outright bad players as they do good ones.
And??? All players are tracked.

So why not simply offer it as subscription based service to serve the stakers of poker players?
Many sites are offered on a subscription basis. (some that do will also offer a handful of free searches each day)
Probably <I've noticed you do a fair bit of this (make assumptions that are often wrong) I've noticed started out like this and now they are unhappy with a set amount of profit and are trying to increase that. That is fine with me, I just do not think you should be able to do things that would get a regular player banned by going against the player agreements we all all must adhere to.
I think you might still be confusing the differences between the sites, what they do & don't do & which ones are banned & why. (just seems this way by the responses you've made in this thread).
 
ckickenking

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I think if players have a problem with other players getting an advantage from software and sites, I say oh well. I learned to deal with it, just play at Bovada where everything is anonymous. Problem solve right
 
Michael Paler

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I think you might still be confusing the differences between the sites, what they do & don't do & which ones are banned & why. (just seems this way by the responses you've made in this thread).

Since I do not use any of them that could well be the case. When I opted out of sharkscope they did hit me with that "only members can enter this sweepstakes" sales pitch though.

Why would they be that interested in keeping a nobody's stats, such as myself? That leads me to think the overall numbers of people tracked are of a benefit to them financially. Why else care if I opt out? If I do not opt out then I still am not paying them for anything, thus no benefit to them that I can see.
 
Michael Paler

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Probably <I've noticed you do a fair bit of this (make assumptions that are often wrong) I've noticed started out like this and now they are unhappy with a set amount of profit and are trying to increase that. That is fine with me, I just do not think you should be able to do things that would get a regular player banned by going against the player agreements we all all must adhere to.



PokerO, I based this off of how business works, not just a blind assumption; In order to be successful, you have to increase your profits to keep pace with rising costs and be able to afford the unexpected costs you might incur along the way. Also, if you want to attract investors to raise money or simply get a loan, you must prove how you can pay it back in interest or a return on the investment dollars given to you. That eats into short term profits even more.

Since you have to grow your business in order to do this, it means you often start off small and get bigger. Thus the "probably started out like this" part of my comment. So I only assume they are a business (and they are), even if it's just one guy in a garage or running the site out of his home. :)
 
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