Is poker tracker / HUD a necessity? Also..

A

Alpha350

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Hello, this is my first post, sorry if it's in the wrong place.

I've just downloaded a trial version of poker tracker (used a long time ago briefly) Now, what I'd like to know if it is an absolute necessity to use the HUD to even the edge others have, or could I just fix my leaks by reviewing and analyzing histories, etc..

What I'm concerned about is if it will effect my game in a negative way, especially playing live. I play live / tournaments 3-4 times a week, and online all between.

I don't want to have a dependency on software to improve my game. It may sound stupid to some of you, but I'd feel like I'm cheating myself. I want to be the best I can, and have only myself to thank, not be reliant on software like a HUD to think for me in decision making. I should be able to learn and make these critical decisions myself, and grow as a player and not rely on a program. When it comes to playing live I feel that if I used it, it would effect my game and I wouldn't trust my instincts as much, or even online without it after using it for a long time.

That being said, I'm at a disadvantage not using it. I'd like some opinions and to know if anyone else feels the same.

thanks.
 
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Hello, this is my first post, sorry if it's in the wrong place.

I've just downloaded a trial version of poker tracker (used a long time ago briefly) Now, what I'd like to know if it is an absolute necessity to use the HUD to even the edge others have, or could I just fix my leaks by reviewing and analyzing histories, etc..

What I'm concerned about is if it will effect my game in a negative way, especially playing live. I play live / tournaments 3-4 times a week, and online all between.

I don't want to have a dependency on software to improve my game. It may sound stupid to some of you, but I'd feel like I'm cheating myself. I want to be the best I can, and have only myself to thank, not be reliant on software like a HUD to think for me in decision making. I should be able to learn and make these critical decisions myself, and grow as a player and not rely on a program. When it comes to playing live I feel that if I used it, it would effect my game and I wouldn't trust my instincts as much, or even online without it after using it for a long time.

That being said, I'm at a disadvantage not using it. I'd like some opinions and to know if anyone else feels the same.

thanks.

Your Qs and answars is there in your post. in my opinion it s realy negative Impact on your live Play , cos we get used to huds and depend upon it in live games. poker is about situational Play and quick decision . live games doesnt ve huds and we nd to know make our own decision without any other help. many top poker pros Play with huds and still make massive score online.

I will not Name anyone , but there is a top pro who once told me that huds are marketting propoganda to make Money from poker Players. many top pros recommend huds cos actualy most of them ve Shares in those huds companies . so the more huds s being bought they make more Money from those Shares . most of the huds are being created by These pros and their Business Partners . also many are owned by some pokersites who along with pros allow huds to be used in their sites so that they can get some % of that pie as well.

Huds industry now has become Multi mega millions industry as more and ore grinders think that huds are very essntial to Play the game.
 
ConDeck

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Your Qs and answars is there in your post. in my opinion it s realy negative Impact on your live Play , cos we get used to huds and depend upon it in live games. poker is about situational Play and quick decision . live games doesnt ve huds and we nd to know make our own decision without any other help. many top poker pros Play with huds and still make massive score online.



I will not Name anyone , but there is a top pro who once told me that huds are marketting propoganda to make Money from poker Players. many top pros recommend huds cos actualy most of them ve Shares in those huds companies . so the more huds s being bought they make more Money from those Shares . most of the huds are being created by These pros and their Business Partners . also many are owned by some pokersites who along with pros allow huds to be used in their sites so that they can get some % of that pie as well.



Huds industry now has become Multi mega millions industry as more and ore grinders think that huds are very essntial to Play the game.

I disagree with the above ^^

There is a chance your live play might suffer but I highly doubt it, quite the opposite actually... It will probably improve as mine did. Leaks in your online game are usually leaks in your live game too...

When the poker world is continuously developing and a vast amount of players, even at the micros, are using HUDs why would you want to be at a disadvantage by not using one?

The HUD as you mention in the OP does not do your thinking for you... Your decisions are still your own! All it does is tack the number of times someone does a particular move so that you can get an general idea for how villain plays and there individual preferences. This helps you range your opponent also which is vital.

The difference between live and online play is that you only have to track the 8 other people at your table and recall previous info from quite a narrow pool relating to these guys, you are able to engage players and extract information and you can pick up live tells in a live game. Online, you may need to track 1000's of players, recall there preferences, over 12 tables while making profitable decisions on every street almost instantly... The HUD assists in this by recalling the info for you to aid your decision making that is all.

Even if you don't use the actual heads up display I would still recommend a HUD for the review and analysis you mentioned, the filters and data available will be much more beneficial than any other review you could do.
 
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Alpha350

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Thanks for the feedback.

I know it's definitely an edge, but I feel kinda off about referring to the HUD to help decisions. Kind of like learning, but having a tutor basically hint your answers to you, you're hardly learning. Probably a shit example, but you catch my drift.

As we both said, I can always use it to analyse and keep track of win/loss, unquestionably the best way to go about it.
 
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I disagree with the above ^^

There is a chance your live play might suffer but I highly doubt it, quite the opposite actually... It will probably improve as mine did. Leaks in your online game are usually leaks in your live game too...

When the poker world is continuously developing and a vast amount of players, even at the micros, are using HUDs why would you want to be at a disadvantage by not using one?

This. I am planning to invest in one myself at this point, for that reason. So far I've just utilized notes and ACR cleared ALL my notes in a recent update for whatever reason.
 
ConDeck

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Thanks for the feedback.



I know it's definitely an edge, but I feel kinda off about referring to the HUD to help decisions. Kind of like learning, but having a tutor basically hint your answers to you, you're hardly learning. Probably a shit example, but you catch my drift.



As we both said, I can always use it to analyse and keep track of win/loss, unquestionably the best way to go about it.


Using your tutor analogy, I would liken it more to an open book law exam...

You still need an extensive knowledge of law prior to taking the exam. You have your book only for reference to back up your answers and draw upon previous knowledge. Put your average lay person in this situation and they would fail miserably. If you were to take this test in your first year at uni, and then again in your third you test scores would (or should) have improved, meaning that substantial learning has still occurred... Even though the information at hand is the same.

Using a HUD is like this, you still have to learn and understand the game, your still need to develop as a player, you still need to make decisions based on incomplete knowledge but you have a HUD there like the open book in the above exam for reference, to back up your reason for making a certain play and to add to your existing knowledge.

If someone was to sit an open book exam, let's say they were the best in the class even, and they decided not to take the book in with them, even knowing all they know 99% of people would agree that this would be daft, even of he only needed to refer to it once or twice in the entire exam it would still be silly not to take it in with him in the first place as he is disadvantaging himself when everyone else has the book.

Your HUD is the same, even if you only refer to it a few times during your session, it is still better to have the information there. Knowing how to use the information at hand is also a skill that crosses over into live player also... Eg. You know a player is opening very wide, but is he in every position? Is he only ever 3betting the nuts? Is he capable of bluffing 3 streets? Etc... All of these decisions influence your decision making and it is simply not possible to memorise this information for every player online... Nm the HUD will then also assist you in reviewing how you played against this type of villain, what was profitable and what was not. In future, do more of what was profitable and less of that which wasn't...
 
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Using your tutor analogy, I would liken it more to an open book law exam...

You still need an extensive knowledge of law prior to taking the exam. You have your book only for reference to back up your answers and draw upon previous knowledge. Put your average lay person in this situation and they would fail miserably. If you were to take this test in your first year at uni, and then again in your third you test scores would (or should) have improved, meaning that substantial learning has still occurred... Even though the information at hand is the same.

Using a HUD is like this, you still have to learn and understand the game, your still need to develop as a player, you still need to make decisions based on incomplete knowledge but you have a HUD there like the open book in the above exam for reference, to back up your reason for making a certain play and to add to your existing knowledge.

If someone was to sit an open book exam, let's say they were the best in the class even, and they decided not to take the book in with them, even knowing all they know 99% of people would agree that this would be daft, even of he only needed to refer to it once or twice in the entire exam it would still be silly not to take it in with him in the first place as he is disadvantaging himself when everyone else has the book.

Your HUD is the same, even if you only refer to it a few times during your session, it is still better to have the information there. Knowing how to use the information at hand is also a skill that crosses over into live player also... Eg. You know a player is opening very wide, but is he in every position? Is he only ever 3betting the nuts? Is he capable of bluffing 3 streets? Etc... All of these decisions influence your decision making and it is simply not possible to memorise this information for every player online... Nm the HUD will then also assist you in reviewing how you played against this type of villain, what was profitable and what was not. In future, do more of what was profitable and less of that which wasn't...


What you're saying makes a great deal of sense. I Guess I should go ahead with it. I'll smash out the trial and see how we go, and most probably buy it within a few weeks.

Thanks for taking the time to give your opinion.
 
ConDeck

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No problem, any time :) feel free to pm me if you need any further assistance eg. Setting up HUD or whatever. Always happy to help :)
 
John A

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I've been playing online and live poker for a pretty long time now. In my experience, and from what I can glean from the statements I've read about people who are anti-HUD is they usually just don't want to learn how to use the stats and information available to them. In other words, they're just lazy. They'll say it's because they think it takes away from their reads, but other comments they tend to say indicate an unwillingness to learn. It's just my opinion, but I can tell you, using a HUD will only improve your live play. If the reasons aren't obvious, then to be blunt, poker may not be a game you should take up too seriously.

Poker, being the game of incomplete information, if you have the possibility of more information at your disposal, why wouldn't you take it? It just makes zero sense, and having a HUD won't diminish your reads if you stay focused. I think my reads combined with my HUD stats are one of my greatest strengths, and I can make reads on the table quicker than anyone I've sweated in my life before.

Then, you take all that information, and understanding of how to break down the stats and ranges, and when you apply it live you have a huge edge on the other live donks.

That's my 2 cents at least. But the bottom line is, if you don't want to use a HUD, don't use one. There are plenty of people on this forum and others that can win without one. Id' argue that they'd be winning more if they used their info correctly, but they'd never believe me. :)
 
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I will not Name anyone , but there is a top pro who once told me that huds are marketting propoganda to make Money from poker Players. many top pros recommend huds cos actualy most of them ve Shares in those huds companies . so the more huds s being bought they make more Money from those Shares . most of the huds are being created by These pros and their Business Partners . also many are owned by some pokersites who along with pros allow huds to be used in their sites so that they can get some % of that pie as well.

Huds industry now has become Multi mega millions industry as more and ore grinders think that huds are very essntial to Play the game.

Hehe... thanks for the good chuckle. That made my day!

Propaganda! Hehe... great stuff man. Fyi, most top pros don't own shares in HUD companies. I know this because I know all of the software companies and who owns what. Even stuff the public doesn't know. There's one top pro that has money in a HUD company, and he doesn't play very publicly anymore, and never talks about his own company.
 
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I've been playing online and live poker for a pretty long time now. In my experience, and from what I can glean from the statements I've read about people who are anti-HUD is they usually just don't want to learn how to use the stats and information available to them. In other words, they're just lazy. They'll say it's because they think it takes away from their reads, but other comments they tend to say indicate an unwillingness to learn. It's just my opinion, but I can tell you, using a HUD will only improve your live play. If the reasons aren't obvious, then to be blunt, poker may not be a game you should take up too seriously.

Poker, being the game of incomplete information, if you have the possibility of more information at your disposal, why wouldn't you take it? It just makes zero sense, and having a HUD won't diminish your reads if you stay focused. I think my reads combined with my HUD stats are one of my greatest strengths, and I can make reads on the table quicker than anyone I've sweated in my life before.

Then, you take all that information, and understanding of how to break down the stats and ranges, and when you apply it live you have a huge edge on the other live donks.

That's my 2 cents at least. But the bottom line is, if you don't want to use a HUD, don't use one. There are plenty of people on this forum and others that can win without one. Id' argue that they'd be winning more if they used their info correctly, but they'd never believe me. :)


Haha, I got a laugh out of the first paragraph. I'm by no means lazy when it comes to poker and trying to improve my game I'm more than willing to learn, and to jump conclusions saying this may not be a game for me? (lol) Oh well, that's your opinion, have at it.

You seem to be missing the point. I expressed my concern, wondering if it will effect my game in a negative way when it comes to playing live, or without HUD, after getting used to it. That I don't want to develop a dependency on it, and feel like I needed it when it came to not using one, yada yada. Never said I was anti HUD, or hinting I wasn't willing to learn.
Hence the reason I wrote this post, to get opinions from other players who use it and how it's gone for them.

You said using the HUD with your reads is one of your greatest strengths, well that was my personal concern. I don't want to have to rely on HUD software to be strong. I have taken into consideration what you and Condeck have said, and I'm certain you both don't need them to play well either.

It sounds like a no brainer to use one, as I said previously to Condeck I'll give it a bash and what he said made sense. You came across like you missed my point about the concerns, and skipped straight to saying I'm lazy and it's probably not the game for me. Just because you've come across some "anti HUD" players (which I'm not), don't categorize me into that group of people and palm it off as being slack.
 
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Your Qs and answars is there in your post. in my opinion it s realy negative Impact on your live Play , cos we get used to huds and depend upon it in live games. poker is about situational Play and quick decision . live games doesnt ve huds and we nd to know make our own decision without any other help. many top poker pros Play with huds and still make massive score online.

I will not Name anyone , but there is a top pro who once told me that huds are marketting propoganda to make Money from poker Players. many top pros recommend huds cos actualy most of them ve Shares in those huds companies . so the more huds s being bought they make more Money from those Shares . most of the huds are being created by These pros and their Business Partners . also many are owned by some pokersites who along with pros allow huds to be used in their sites so that they can get some % of that pie as well.

Huds industry now has become Multi mega millions industry as more and ore grinders think that huds are very essntial to Play the game.

I have some land in Florida you might be interested in...
 
John A

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Haha, I got a laugh out of the first paragraph. I'm by no means lazy when it comes to poker and trying to improve my game I'm more than willing to learn, and to jump conclusions saying this may not be a game for me? (lol) Oh well, that's your opinion, have at it.

You didn't say you were anti-hud, so I wasn't directing my comments at you. I was just giving you my opinion from what I've seen online from those who are anti-hud. I'm not sure why you'd draw the conclusion my post was about you, but it wasn't.
 
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No, HUD is no necessity. But it usually allows you to play some more tables and give you hints you otherwise miss.

I played without HUD until 2012... made a good profit, though one reason was that I mainly just one network, knew how regs played and played usually like 4 tables. No need for HUDs then, but playing in 10 different sites, quick tempo games it's good to have information about regs who you don't remember how they play.

And also: there are sites where HUDs are either not allowed or not supported ;)
 
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