PFR bigger than VPIP ?

Fahrenheit451

Fahrenheit451

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Hi !

As I understand (correct me if I'm wrong)
1) VPIP is percentage of hands where you raise or call preflop
2) PR is percentage of hands where you raise preflop
Therefore VPIP = PR + PCall and PFR <= VPIP

But in PT4 I've seen sometimes that PFR > VPIP
I hope you believe me, but I can attach screenshot if not.

How can it be :confused:
 
detroitjunkie

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Im not sure about PT4, but the PFR percentage may only be of hands that you are playing, when you play a hand, how often do you raise PF. I feel this is could be the case, and therefore most times should be higher than VPIP. If this is not the case then its something else logical, read the manual again and see. May also be your settings are goofy. I say attach your screen shot anyways and maybe someone can see the issue
 
fortopyan

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Hi !

As I understand (correct me if I'm wrong)
1) VPIP is percentage of hands where you raise or call preflop
2) PR is percentage of hands where you raise preflop
Therefore VPIP = PR + PCall and PFR <= VPIP

But in PT4 I've seen sometimes that PFR > VPIP
I hope you believe me, but I can attach screenshot if not.

How can it be :confused:

i use HM2 ! but i think that you should pay attention to the settings of these parameters .... is possible that PFR or vpip shown not a percentage, but the number of hands):deal:
 
Aceplayer55

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This has to do with a small stack. When the player can call (and as a result be all-in), he also cannot raise due to stack size. This counts as a VPIP opp (opportunity), but not a PFR opp.

Therefore when a player in this situation does not call, his VPIP goes down, but his PFR is not affected.
 
Fahrenheit451

Fahrenheit451

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I searched PT4 forum and found an answer.
They (for reasons I cannot understand) invented new VPIP stat that doesn't count cases when player is in BB, everyone limped to him and then he raises.
In that case they add 1 to the PFR, but not to VPIP.
To me it looks strange, but maybe it has some advantages.
 
detroitjunkie

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BB shouldnt count towards vpip anyways since its not voluntary
 
HoldemManager

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Both PT4 and HM2 do not count hands where you do not have the opportunity to do an action as an opportunity.

PFR will sometimes be higher than VPIP because it's been changed to only reflect when you can actually raise. Basically, if when playing, there is no raise button when the action is to you, it's not a PFR opportunity. This will be when the action is all-in prior to you and you either do not have more chips or are closing the action. PT has made this change as well. It will only happen with small samples. See this FAQ for more info and examples - http://hm2faq.holdemmanager.com/questions/2052/Database+Update+Utility#6
 
meagain00

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I think that is possible, no problem. Once BB doesn't count to VPIP.

meagain00
 
H

Hemlock

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Agree

I always understood it as VPIP is how often the person is playing hands and PFR is how often they raise pre-flop. What about when there is a re-raise though is that effect PFR too? I admit some of the stats are a little confusing to me, or at least when it comes to the complete meaning and not just having a partial understanding...
 
HoldemManager

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Yes, a 3bet is a subset of PFR (which is a subset of VPIP).

As such, not all VPIP are a PFR, and not all PFR are a 3bet.

BUT

All 3bets are PFR/VPIP and all PFR are VPIP.

The biggest key here is, if you can't re-raise (facing an all-in bet), then it doesn't count as a PFR opportunity.

udbrky
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