skltlf
Enthusiast
Silver Level
absoluthamm
<==Poker Face
Silver Level
Why is it absurd? Only 5% of computers use Linux, and of those, I would be willing to bet that about half have Windows installed as well. Why would a poker site try to use resources to create and manage a different client that 2.5% of people could use? Also, keep in mind that that 2.5% is all Linux only computers, not Linux only computers of poker players, so really, we're probably looking at like < .5%.
Dual boot or VM. I dual boot and have for years with no issues.
Dual boot or VM. I dual boot and have for years with no issues.
calicard
Visionary
Silver Level
Just take your linux and create your own site. Then invite players with huge bonuses to attract them and then you're set. To any one running linux this should be easy to accomplish
O
orangepeeleo
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
skltlf
Enthusiast
Silver Level
@Chemist
I get the implementations put forward of having "no install" poker.. so i guess that would be the "linux native" version
@Calicard
You fund it, I'll build it =)
But the real question is how to run them in WINE.
My desktop is all linux, laptop is a dual booter, other desktop is a mac... no issues with using any system, just would be nice to play the games on my preferred system
I get the implementations put forward of having "no install" poker.. so i guess that would be the "linux native" version
@Calicard
You fund it, I'll build it =)
But the real question is how to run them in WINE.
My desktop is all linux, laptop is a dual booter, other desktop is a mac... no issues with using any system, just would be nice to play the games on my preferred system
absoluthamm
<==Poker Face
Silver Level
One of the reasons you run Linux is because it is free. You cheapo
You think those sites don't see you for what you are?
That is an extremely small reason if at all why I or anyone I know runs anything Linux/Unix based.
skltlf
Enthusiast
Silver Level
using wine, I ALMOST have black chip running... it is missing 2 more dependencies, but I can not find them. I just sent a request to BLC asking what windows component files are necessary for the program to run, if they reply I will get it running and let everyone know how I did it.
So far, I've been using WINE exclusively for this, with modified .dll recognition to bypass some errors.
So far, I've been using WINE exclusively for this, with modified .dll recognition to bypass some errors.
t1tpfdc
Legend
Loyaler
Geeezuz, lotta negativatism here! Chill, guys!
Considering the time I've been using computers (bought my first home computer more than 30 years ago), I know very little about how they actually work. Bought this laptop a few years ago; ran Vista and then Win 7. Then the harddrive gave up. So I downloaded a linux-based rescue disk to see if the drive could be saved. It could not. But I was quite surprised how well it ran with linux, even off of a CD.
So I looked into linux and saw that it could be installed on a flashdrive, min 2 Gb. Made an Ubuntu linux installation drive on a 4 Gb flashdrive and ran it that way for a few days without actually installing it (worked fine, just could not save any settings). Happy with that, I installed Ubuntu on an 8Gb flashdrive, and have been using it for many months, maybe a year.
Entraction network has a dedicated Linux client for download. pokerstars and ipoker clients run great with Wine. Can't say about the Boss and Ongame clients, because their web-based clients on their websites work so well (and ipoker also), I've not tried to install them. Microgaming sites also have a web client that works fine, cept that the interface makes it extremely difficult to find a specific game or tournament. Only ones (that I have tried) that don't work are Merge and Cake clients. And I have no knowledge of how to go about making them work.
What is absurd is that Merge and Cake sites do not have a platform-independent, no-install client that a user can run from any computer anywhere. ipoker, Boss, Ongame and Microgaming have done it. Should be possible for Merge and Cake also.
Guilty as Charged! But then not ...
I've not really liked any version of Windows that I've ever used (still have ver. 1.0 on 5-inch floppies in the storeroom somewhere). Mostly because of all the unnecessary crap that it installs. Found that I prefer 3rd-party programs and applications for most things, e.g. Firefox and Chrome browsers. I don't use or want Iexplorer, so why have it installed filling up drive space? Iexplorer, Outlook, Netmeeting, etc etc. Willy Gates is going to give me exactly what I want, whether I want it or not. And once he has forced me to buy all that rubbish that I don't want and will never use, he makes it impossible for me to get rid of it! "An integral part of the operating system!" Bullpoop!
With linux, I install what I want and when I want. And when done with it, I can take it away again! There is a threshold to get over as a linux beginner, but no more so than when I first started with windows!
So, a new tiny little harddrive to fit into this laptop, plus a new windows license... Am I going to shell out $200-$300 just in order to play poker at Merge and Cake poker sites?
Ummmm, No ...
I'm not too cheap to pay for what I want, and would gladly pay a reasonable sum for this that I have now. Fortunately for me I don't have to. But don't see any reason to pay microsoft for a Tbyte of junk that I do not want!
[The 8Gb is quite sufficient, but wanted a little more. So dropped a hint to son couple months ago (before Christmas). He got me a new flashdrive ... a whopping 32Gb! No way I'm investing in a new harddrive now. Don't need one!]
Please keep me informed of your progress!
Am I more right or wrong in assuming that 'one size fits all'? That if you can get Blackchip to run, the other Merge clients (Carbon) will also run?
Maybe you would get better/more knowledgeable response if you contact the Merge network directly?
t1
Considering the time I've been using computers (bought my first home computer more than 30 years ago), I know very little about how they actually work. Bought this laptop a few years ago; ran Vista and then Win 7. Then the harddrive gave up. So I downloaded a linux-based rescue disk to see if the drive could be saved. It could not. But I was quite surprised how well it ran with linux, even off of a CD.
So I looked into linux and saw that it could be installed on a flashdrive, min 2 Gb. Made an Ubuntu linux installation drive on a 4 Gb flashdrive and ran it that way for a few days without actually installing it (worked fine, just could not save any settings). Happy with that, I installed Ubuntu on an 8Gb flashdrive, and have been using it for many months, maybe a year.
You do not need Windows to play online poker, I play running linux every day.
Entraction network has a dedicated Linux client for download. pokerstars and ipoker clients run great with Wine. Can't say about the Boss and Ongame clients, because their web-based clients on their websites work so well (and ipoker also), I've not tried to install them. Microgaming sites also have a web client that works fine, cept that the interface makes it extremely difficult to find a specific game or tournament. Only ones (that I have tried) that don't work are Merge and Cake clients. And I have no knowledge of how to go about making them work.
What is absurd is that Merge and Cake sites do not have a platform-independent, no-install client that a user can run from any computer anywhere. ipoker, Boss, Ongame and Microgaming have done it. Should be possible for Merge and Cake also.
One of the reasons you run Linux is because it is free. You cheapo
Guilty as Charged! But then not ...
I've not really liked any version of Windows that I've ever used (still have ver. 1.0 on 5-inch floppies in the storeroom somewhere). Mostly because of all the unnecessary crap that it installs. Found that I prefer 3rd-party programs and applications for most things, e.g. Firefox and Chrome browsers. I don't use or want Iexplorer, so why have it installed filling up drive space? Iexplorer, Outlook, Netmeeting, etc etc. Willy Gates is going to give me exactly what I want, whether I want it or not. And once he has forced me to buy all that rubbish that I don't want and will never use, he makes it impossible for me to get rid of it! "An integral part of the operating system!" Bullpoop!
With linux, I install what I want and when I want. And when done with it, I can take it away again! There is a threshold to get over as a linux beginner, but no more so than when I first started with windows!
So, a new tiny little harddrive to fit into this laptop, plus a new windows license... Am I going to shell out $200-$300 just in order to play poker at Merge and Cake poker sites?
Ummmm, No ...
I'm not too cheap to pay for what I want, and would gladly pay a reasonable sum for this that I have now. Fortunately for me I don't have to. But don't see any reason to pay microsoft for a Tbyte of junk that I do not want!
[The 8Gb is quite sufficient, but wanted a little more. So dropped a hint to son couple months ago (before Christmas). He got me a new flashdrive ... a whopping 32Gb! No way I'm investing in a new harddrive now. Don't need one!]
Please keep me informed of your progress!
Am I more right or wrong in assuming that 'one size fits all'? That if you can get Blackchip to run, the other Merge clients (Carbon) will also run?
Maybe you would get better/more knowledgeable response if you contact the Merge network directly?
t1
dj11
Legend
Silver Level
I guess my overly liberal use of smilies didn't convey my light hearted comments enuf.
I really really hope a Linux for the desktop comes along that is as versatile as Windows. It will have to have as many similarities to Windows, and Windows does with whatever Apple flavor of the month you use.
Where Windows has always beat Apples OS's is in it upgradability. You can't put a much newer Apple OS on an older Apple. This is true today, and it was before Apple went Intel.
For Linux to duplicate that trick, it too will have to get much more bloated than any Linx (my name for Linux users) will want to acknowledge.
Thing is, I'm a cheapo too.
I really really hope a Linux for the desktop comes along that is as versatile as Windows. It will have to have as many similarities to Windows, and Windows does with whatever Apple flavor of the month you use.
Where Windows has always beat Apples OS's is in it upgradability. You can't put a much newer Apple OS on an older Apple. This is true today, and it was before Apple went Intel.
For Linux to duplicate that trick, it too will have to get much more bloated than any Linx (my name for Linux users) will want to acknowledge.
Thing is, I'm a cheapo too.
t1tpfdc
Legend
Loyaler
Yes, deej, I got your message with the smileys
But that line of yours seemed like a good lead-in to my semi-rant about paying for things I don't want.
And you bring up another good point, newer OS versions and older hardware. Forget running a later Windows on an older machine; can imagine it is the same for Apple. Not only are there lighter versions of Linux available for download; they are also supported! Try buying an older Windows or getting any help from Microsoft with it.
But that line of yours seemed like a good lead-in to my semi-rant about paying for things I don't want.
And you bring up another good point, newer OS versions and older hardware. Forget running a later Windows on an older machine; can imagine it is the same for Apple. Not only are there lighter versions of Linux available for download; they are also supported! Try buying an older Windows or getting any help from Microsoft with it.
skltlf
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I might have to contact merge on this as I have not gotten a response. You are correct in saying all merge clients will run if I find out the dependency files.. ever get the "more than one client" running thing? all merge software is linked to that "script" (using term loosely for simple explanation).. but there are 2 more dependencies I am still missing.
t1tpfdc
Legend
Loyaler
I've had two running at same time, but only on two computers. Heard of a windows thingie that made it possible (Sandbox?), but I never had need to try it.
Good luck with getting it running. Hopefully Merge network will be more helpful. It is in their interest, too
dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
I've read of some mixed results getting Carbon to run on Wine. Since they all use the same client code, just customized with their themes and such, getting one Merge client to run should work for all. I run a number of Linux boxes -- servers, desktops, and laptops -- but so far have not bothered to play poker on one as I have a honkin' gaming rig and laptop that both run Win7. So I pretty much just play on Windows.
Finding dependencies for the Merge client is tougher than usual for several reasons. If it were a standard Win32 application that either statically linked against the DLLs, or used the LoadLibrary call for dynamic linking, it would be a simple matter of running through a dependency walker. However the Merge clients are Java applications, compiled and encrypted with the Excelsior JET engine. So the client.exe itself is not the actual poker client code being executed -- at runtime, the code is decrypted and extracted to Java byte code and run with JET's internal JVM. So a static dependency check won't find any DLLs but what JET requires (standard Win32 libs). Besides that, being a Java application, once it's running it won't be loading DLLs except for rare JNI stuff. It would be loading .jar or .class files, and since these are embedded in the EXE and unpacked at runtime, it's not even loading them from the filesystem.
It also has a lot of protections to prevent debuggers from attaching at runtime -- I've tried profiling with Dependency Walker to see if it would grab dependencies loaded at runtime, and it just crashes. I've used SysInternals' Process Explorer to view the file handles it keeps open while it runs, which wasn't all that enlightening. By far the most information I've gotten is from running SysInternals' Process Monitor with a filter set to include only the client.exe process, then starting the poker client. This dumps all file and registry key accesses. It's a ton of information, about 36,000 events captured just in getting to the poker lobby.
I've not sunk a ton of time into it, but did do a little reverse engineering awhile ago to see what I could figure out, and after determining the above I decided it probably wasn't worth the effort since I always have access to a Windows PC or VM pretty much no matter where I am.
EDIT: BTW I should mention that one of the frustrating things about this is that Excelsior JET supports Linux as well. They'd just need to buy a Linux license and use it to build a Linux version of their client. Since Java is cross-platform anyway, there should be no real code changes required and thus no additional effort to support Linux. If I knew I had a nearly free way to expand my market by even 2%, I'd be all over it. Granted, I expect their argument against this, if they had one, would be that they'd have to train support staff to handle Linux support. That said, what little interaction I've had with Merge skin support (because Merge doesn't handle end-users), they're pretty clueless even about Windows, so I'm not sure what the difference would be.
Finding dependencies for the Merge client is tougher than usual for several reasons. If it were a standard Win32 application that either statically linked against the DLLs, or used the LoadLibrary call for dynamic linking, it would be a simple matter of running through a dependency walker. However the Merge clients are Java applications, compiled and encrypted with the Excelsior JET engine. So the client.exe itself is not the actual poker client code being executed -- at runtime, the code is decrypted and extracted to Java byte code and run with JET's internal JVM. So a static dependency check won't find any DLLs but what JET requires (standard Win32 libs). Besides that, being a Java application, once it's running it won't be loading DLLs except for rare JNI stuff. It would be loading .jar or .class files, and since these are embedded in the EXE and unpacked at runtime, it's not even loading them from the filesystem.
It also has a lot of protections to prevent debuggers from attaching at runtime -- I've tried profiling with Dependency Walker to see if it would grab dependencies loaded at runtime, and it just crashes. I've used SysInternals' Process Explorer to view the file handles it keeps open while it runs, which wasn't all that enlightening. By far the most information I've gotten is from running SysInternals' Process Monitor with a filter set to include only the client.exe process, then starting the poker client. This dumps all file and registry key accesses. It's a ton of information, about 36,000 events captured just in getting to the poker lobby.
I've not sunk a ton of time into it, but did do a little reverse engineering awhile ago to see what I could figure out, and after determining the above I decided it probably wasn't worth the effort since I always have access to a Windows PC or VM pretty much no matter where I am.
EDIT: BTW I should mention that one of the frustrating things about this is that Excelsior JET supports Linux as well. They'd just need to buy a Linux license and use it to build a Linux version of their client. Since Java is cross-platform anyway, there should be no real code changes required and thus no additional effort to support Linux. If I knew I had a nearly free way to expand my market by even 2%, I'd be all over it. Granted, I expect their argument against this, if they had one, would be that they'd have to train support staff to handle Linux support. That said, what little interaction I've had with Merge skin support (because Merge doesn't handle end-users), they're pretty clueless even about Windows, so I'm not sure what the difference would be.
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t1tpfdc
Legend
Loyaler
Should have known that you were already on the case, dm. Good info that! I didn't understand diddly squat, but no surprise that. I'm sure it was good stuff! Was hoping that skltlf would be able to fix this in short order, but you make it sound impossible!
That just means it might take him a little longer ...
But if the whole thing is based on Java,it seems it should be very simple for them to make a web-based Java client. Why haven't they done it?
(a rhetorical question, only they know the answer to that)
That just means it might take him a little longer ...
But if the whole thing is based on Java,it seems it should be very simple for them to make a web-based Java client. Why haven't they done it?
(a rhetorical question, only they know the answer to that)
physiotherapist
Visionary
Silver Level
dont have much idea about linux , but i have mac book pro , which i had the same problems and finally i decided to setup windows os on mac book for my poker use only
the option is having both linux and windows os on your system
the option is having both linux and windows os on your system
dmorris68
Legend
Loyaler
Web-based Java is not the same as client-side Java. First, many confuse Javascript with Java -- they share almost no similarity other than both have Java in the name. As far as browser-based applets, they are so 1990's, limited in functionality, and quite ugly.
To do anything substantial on the client side with Java you really must run it as a full client. Besides that and probably other things, Merge uses SWT as their GUI widget library which hooks to native OS controls (Windows, Linux, Mac, etc.) and won't run in a browser anyway.
To make a web-based poker client you really need to code it for that up front, and only relatively recent developments in web technology (Flash, AJAX, HTML5, CSS3, modern Javascript frameworks, etc.) allow for a remotely pleasant experience. This is an entirely different developer skillset than pure Java or C/C++ which most poker clients had already implemented, so the effort would be substantial to transition to the web with the same sort of functionality we've come to expect from the client.
In Merge's case, though, they could at least easily support Linux by just running each build through a Linux version of JET. I assume this is what they're already doing with the Mac client, so why not make a one-time spend for the Linux JET license and expand your market with little to no effort other than a 3rd build script?
But as has been said, for the time being it's just easier to run a Windows VM if you want to play on Linux. The only potential rub is if you want to run a tracker/HUD and don't have the hardware to support it very well. The HUD overlays require some low-level graphics support that doesn't always work well in VMs, and the database overhead with a large history can be taxing as well. People already complain about tracker performance while multi-tabling with huge databases on a native machine -- those problems would be magnified many times in most VM scenarios.
As for Mac...
I thought pretty much all the major US-friendly sites except maybe Cake had native Mac/OSX clients? I know Merge, Stars, and FT do/did.
skltlf
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I am. No word from Merge... Since there is decompiling/debugging involved with manually stripping the dependencies (which would presumably ban my account) all i can do is wait.
As for the script, I did find a similar .jar that mysteriously pops up ( linux, mac and windows when the client is executed), then closes, but only on windows does a new .jar open and remain consistent. I have to assume the initial .jar is verification of applications running/os reading/security check to ensure the user is not using illegal software and/or running 2 clients at once.
sorry for delayed response.
EDIT:
I do have a lot of java based software on all machines however, it may be coincidence.. too soon to tell as i just looked at it from this angle as DM indirectly suggested.
t1tpfdc
Legend
Loyaler
No worries about delays
Re: reply from Merge. Maybe one (or more) of the staff who has contact with the affiliate manager(s) at Carbon, BCP, or other site, can see if aff manager can do something to get a reply from one of the sites, or expedite a reply from Merge ...
juice? dak? Is that possible?
Complete faith in ya, skltlf !!!
Re: reply from Merge. Maybe one (or more) of the staff who has contact with the affiliate manager(s) at Carbon, BCP, or other site, can see if aff manager can do something to get a reply from one of the sites, or expedite a reply from Merge ...
juice? dak? Is that possible?
Complete faith in ya, skltlf !!!
M
Mythlyrr
Rising Star
Bronze Level
So Far I've only found two compatible sites
They are both browser based and free for US Players
http://uslinuxpoker.blogspot.com/
They are both browser based and free for US Players
http://uslinuxpoker.blogspot.com/
t1tpfdc
Legend
Loyaler
Glad somebody bumped this thread.
Any gurus made any progress getting any clients to run? E.g. Merge?
Got email a while back from intertops; I've not played there for quite a while. Replied that I would play more if their client would run in Linux. They replied that the Cake network client runs fine in Linux, and that many players did so. But since they do not support it, they refused to give any tips or advice on how to get it to run.
Any advice here?
Or other general words of wisdom on the subject?
Any gurus made any progress getting any clients to run? E.g. Merge?
Got email a while back from intertops; I've not played there for quite a while. Replied that I would play more if their client would run in Linux. They replied that the Cake network client runs fine in Linux, and that many players did so. But since they do not support it, they refused to give any tips or advice on how to get it to run.
Any advice here?
Or other general words of wisdom on the subject?