Is LeakBuster Worth It?? (Micro Stakes)

Matt Vaughan

Matt Vaughan

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Most info in the title. ^ I'm a 10nl player on Merge - only recently graduated from 4nl. I have 10k hands at 10nl. The first 7k hands consisted of me going on a massive heater and a magical 14 BI upswing. It was obviously due to variance and says little about what my success at this level will be like.

For the following 2.7k hands I have gone on a 10 BI downswing. Obviously there is some variance in there too, but odds are that leaks are playing a big roll, and I would like to be able to pinpoint my leaks with some precision.

I do not have delusions of being an amazing player, and I want to improve, as always. I'm wondering if LeakBuster can help me do that efficiently, and if it is worth the cost/which version I should get. Thanks in advance for any insights people might have.
 
RDB

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I'm supposed to tell you "of course you need Leakbuster!" :)

...but, it is questionable what the value is of Leakbuster when you play micro-limits (NL2/NL5) when opponents are so bad (and so unpredictable), a lot of PROFITABLE plays you make will be detected as a "leak" and UNPROFITABLE plays will NOT be detected.

Example: when bad opponents will always chase a draw and will never fold top pair (even with a bad kicker)... you should try to go to showdown with them when you beat that. As a result Leakbuster can tell you "you have a leak" and go to showdown too often.


NL10 is probably the stakes where Leakbuster STARTS to get interesting. As you move up (NL25--> NL50--> NL100--> NL200) it gets more and more essential as fixing any minor leak will improve your winrate.

Did you try the Leakbuster trial? Does the Leakbuster trial already shows you 'actual' leaks, that aren't a result of the microstakes?
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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leak buster is ok!

I have it and it promotes the 'standard' way of play way too much though.

other players I know have used it and it seems to come up with the same 'leaks' for us, so honestly I'd wait until 10nl+.. don't use it as a super 'go to' advice either everything needs to be used in consideration and not a know all end all of your ability.

p.s. everything in this post is my opinion and should be taken with a grain of salt. :)
 
JCgrind

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Pretty much what everyone else said. Leak buster assumes your opponents aren't terrible, which at micros they are.
That aside, I really doubt the bought version will give you more benefit than the trial for micros.
I' you can get your Vpip/PFR/fold vs steal in the right ranges you're pretty much good to go
 
Matt Vaughan

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Well I have a mac, so I have to use WINE (Windows parellel) to run it, and haven't gotten the trial working yet... Kinda trying to find whether it's even worth my time to figure out the trial, hehe. :eek:
 
Deco

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I don't have leakbuster but I've always thought following the Holdem Manager articles or even reviewing the player analysis tab in HM1 does what it does.
 
Shwiggler

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I'm supposed to tell you "of course you need Leakbuster!" :)

...but, it is questionable what the value is of Leakbuster when you play micro-limits (NL2/NL5) when opponents are so bad (and so unpredictable), a lot of PROFITABLE plays you make will be detected as a "leak" and UNPROFITABLE plays will NOT be detected.

Example: when bad opponents will always chase a draw and will never fold top pair (even with a bad kicker)... you should try to go to showdown with them when you beat that. As a result Leakbuster can tell you "you have a leak" and go to showdown too often.


NL10 is probably the stakes where Leakbuster STARTS to get interesting. As you move up (NL25--> NL50--> NL100--> NL200) it gets more and more essential as fixing any minor leak will improve your winrate.

Did you try the Leakbuster trial? Does the Leakbuster trial already shows you 'actual' leaks, that aren't a result of the microstakes?

Well, I'd disagree. I'd have to say it's applicable to all stakes, but what you primarily use it for depends on the stakes you play. I play mid stakes now, and the application is very handy for me to peek at certain ways I'm playing small pairs, Ax hands, and some of my post flop lines. The learning content isn't as helpful for me, but for micro and small stakes players I think it would be like gold. There's a lot of good information there.

I've had it for over a year now so I can say that it's been extremely helpful. The bottom line is you have to spend some time with it, but in terms of bang for your buck on getting a one push button solution that will help you think deeper about your game, I don't know of anything better. As long as you don't expect a piece of software to turn you into a poker god, then there's tons of value in the program for micro, small and mid stake player imho.
 
Shwiggler

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I don't have leakbuster but I've always thought following the Holdem Manager articles or even reviewing the player analysis tab in HM1 does what it does.

No. I remember when these first came out though and they were helpful. They are definitely worth checking out, but free articles + player analysis = leak buster lol... no. Not even close.
 
Deco

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No. I remember when these first came out though and they were helpful. They are definitely worth checking out, but free articles + player analysis = leak buster lol... no. Not even close.

What does leak buster do that articles, custom filters and player analysis does not?
 
Shwiggler

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What does leak buster do that articles, custom filters and player analysis does not?

Provides feedback. Articles are not interactive. You can do everything with one click of a button. It's not worth my time when I make $150+/hr at the poker tables to spend countless hours trying to collect information, filters, and then running them one at a time. Total waste of my time and inefficient.

For micro players though it does more analysis than custom filter are going to do. I think it checks for somewhere over 500 potential leaks in a few minutes. The video content is very good. For no-limit, like I said, I'm personally beyond that, but for micro and small stakes players there's a lot of good information. The PLO videos are really really good... just those alone are worth the price. I checked it out because someone else mentioned that on another forum.

FYI, I've used those articles and pokey's filters (several years ago). They are decent (likely very outdated now), if you don't want to invest any money in your poker game.
 
Deco

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I only tried the trial but leakbuster came up with nothing helpful for me what so ever other than a pretty useless minor leak telling me to play less positionally.

Meanwhile running filters with other regs and using some old HM articles showed me I was c-betting too little from early position, doing poorly in pots where I was not the preflop raiser, doing poorly in small to medium pots, folding too often vs fish. I could also identify which areas I excelled in so I could be sure to not alter my play there and narrow down my potential leaks.

From my little experience of it I got the impression leak buster is designed to plug major leaks in poor players rather than dig out anything sophisticated. Whilst this may be useful for a micro grinder basic leaks could very easily be spotted by a more experienced player by simply seeing that players stats.

Again I only tried the trial, hence why I'm asking you what complex leaks it is capable of finding that would not be glaringly obvious such as the vpip/PFR ratios or low F3B% leaks leakbuster unwisely shows in its advertising.
 
Matt Vaughan

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Wow - I am blown away by the feedback in this thread. Thanks a million for that, everyone.

I'm hearing valid points all around, and am continually frustrated at my inability to to make WINE run the trial for me... Hopefully I'll eventually get it running and be able to give my two cents.

Meanwhile, let the debate continue - I like that this isn't totally one-sided, because differing opinions tend to lead to a more focused and useful discussion. Thanks again for contributing - let's keep it going! :D
 
Shwiggler

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I only tried the trial but leakbuster came up with nothing helpful for me what so ever other than a pretty useless minor leak telling me to play less positionally.

Meanwhile running filters with other regs and using some old HM articles showed me I was c-betting too little from early position, doing poorly in pots where I was not the preflop raiser, doing poorly in small to medium pots, folding too often vs fish. I could also identify which areas I excelled in so I could be sure to not alter my play there and narrow down my potential leaks.

From my little experience of it I got the impression leak buster is designed to plug major leaks in poor players rather than dig out anything sophisticated. Whilst this may be useful for a micro grinder basic leaks could very easily be spotted by a more experienced player by simply seeing that players stats.

Again I only tried the trial, hence why I'm asking you what complex leaks it is capable of finding that would not be glaringly obvious such as the vpip/PFR ratios or low F3B% leaks leakbuster unwisely shows in its advertising.

Yeah, you're not getting complete analysis from a trial. If you're basing your opinion on that than you're basing it on incomplete information. I think it only does a couple of the steps, and leaves the meat of the analysis for registered owners.

Stat analysis like ideal 3-bet%'s, VPIP ratio etc you can get anywhere. It's nice to be able to see a break down of some of the most profitable ranges for winning players (which leak buster adds, and I don't see articles doing adequate analysis on this), but I think that's a small part of leak buster.

I'm looking at it now, so here's some things I would consider more sophisticated. And FYI I don't think ranking leaks is even that easy, I heard an explanation of the algorithm on HM forums and it was quite complex honestly.

River bet sizing
Multiple line analysis - bet check bet, check bet bet, etc...
3-betting reasonable hands from blinds vs. cold calling
Getting max value vs opponents full range
3-bet squeezing w/ non premium hands in and out of position
Betting second pair or less on dry boards on the turn
Blind defense analysis
Naked flop floats vs raises

Just a few things off the top of my head. I mean, there's a lot more. Just seems odd that you recommend just using articles, but you haven't even used the product. Kind of bad advice imho.
 
Deco

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Stat analysis like ideal 3-bet%'s, VPIP ratio etc you can get anywhere. It's nice to be able to see a break down of some of the most profitable ranges for winning players (which leak buster adds, and I don't see articles doing adequate analysis on this), but I think that's a small part of leak buster.

I'm looking at it now, so here's some things I would consider more sophisticated. And FYI I don't think ranking leaks is even that easy, I heard an explanation of the algorithm on HM forums and it was quite complex honestly.

River bet sizing
Multiple line analysis - bet check bet, check bet bet, etc...
3-betting reasonable hands from blinds vs. cold calling
Getting max value vs opponents full range
3-bet squeezing w/ non premium hands in and out of position
Betting second pair or less on dry boards on the turn
Blind defense analysis
Naked flop floats vs raises

I didn't know it was this complex. The trial, testamonials, faqs and advertizing really don't show this more in depth analysis. I may end up buying it once I get round to forking out for notecaddy. Thanks



Just seems odd that you recommend just using articles, but you haven't even used the product. Kind of bad advice imho.

You know when someone asks you a question have you ever considered it might be to recieve an answer rather than as some sort of challenge against your view?

I don't think at any point I have claimed to be a leakbuster expert or told anyone not to purchase it. My very first post states that I do not have leakbuster but I have always thought <insert my opinions>" I've gave my opinion in order to have it rebuffed or confirmed. There's no need to get all defensive on the basis that I shared with this thread that I've had alot of success with filters/articles and none with the leakbuster trial.

Learn to be less adverserial when someone asks you a question.
 
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I definitely recommend it. I started playing cash games this past year, and it has really helped me get alot of my stats into the optimal ranges.

There is a lot of full length video content that corresponds to whatever leaks you may have, written modules, filters for 3betting, biggest loss, opponents, position, different lines, etc and comes with a cool color coded HUD that is one of the better ones i have used, and a nice write up on how to apply the stats in different scenarios. And in the members area, there are a handful of workshops that go in depth on how to get the most out of the program. I heard they were updating the interface in the next week or two as well.

i had a few different training site memberships, and i ended up dropping them after getting Leakbuster. I really like the lesson/example style in the videos. i never got a lot out of the 4 tabling sweat type videos on a lot of sites.

but i'd say give it a try, it has been a solid product imo. i've recommended it to a few friends.
 
Shwiggler

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You know when someone asks you a question have you ever considered it might be to recieve an answer rather than as some sort of challenge against your view?

I don't think at any point I have claimed to be a leakbuster expert or told anyone not to purchase it. My very first post states that I do not have leakbuster but I have always thought <insert my opinions>" I've gave my opinion in order to have it rebuffed or confirmed. There's no need to get all defensive on the basis that I shared with this thread that I've had alot of success with filters/articles and none with the leakbuster trial.

Learn to be less adverserial when someone asks you a question.

The funny thing about people who offer life lessons is that it generally applies to them. You didn't ask any questions until several comments of yours. You said, and I quote, "I don't have leakbuster but I've always thought following the Holdem Manager articles or even reviewing the player analysis tab in HM1 does what it does."

It was bad advice, and I was offering a counter INFORMED opinion. I spent time on here actually trying to provide useful information. You weren't asking specific questions from people who said that they owned it, you were creating an adversarial position without knowledge, and spouting off uninformed opinion (go back and read your posts with some honesty).
 
Deco

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The funny thing about people who offer life lessons is that it generally applies to them. You didn't ask any questions until several comments of yours. You said, and I quote, "I don't have leakbuster but I've always thought following the Holdem Manager articles or even reviewing the player analysis tab in HM1 does what it does."

It was bad advice, and I was offering a counter INFORMED opinion. I spent time on here actually trying to provide useful information. You weren't asking specific questions from people who said that they owned it, you were creating an adversarial position without knowledge, and spouting off uninformed opinion (go back and read your posts with some honesty).

wow Really? Look at the tone of all my comments, the very first one you use is "I don't have leak buster but I thought". If you think that's me showing people how informed my opinion is prior to giving advise your deluded. If I am not an expert on something I make it pretty damn clear as I have done here.

Also am I talking to a sales rep here or is leakbuster your religion? Almost half your posts concern leak buster and you have uploaded videos for it offsite.

I guess people who haven't already paid for it and have just had a bad experience with the trial and good experiences with valid alternatives should keep their mouths shut? I spend a lot of time using HMs filtering tools am I not allowed to so much as tell people there are alternatives out there to your beloved leak buster? Perhaps for the HH analysis thread we should ask for people winrates before they're allowed to comment? Or that people who use pokertracker should be barred from commenting about it's features in a HM thread? Good god I hope you never become a mod anywhere!
 
Matt Vaughan

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Okay this is getting sort of derailed, and I was hoping this would stick more to a discussion of Leakbuster... Can we all just move forward here??

There's plenty of valid stuff going on ITT, let's try to keep it that way please.
 
Shwiggler

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wow Really? Look at the tone of all my comments, the very first one you use is "I don't have leak buster but I thought". If you think that's me showing people how informed my opinion is prior to giving advise your deluded. If I am not an expert on something I make it pretty damn clear as I have done here.

Also am I talking to a sales rep here or is leakbuster your religion? Almost half your posts concern leak buster and you have uploaded videos for it offsite.

I guess people who haven't already paid for it and have just had a bad experience with the trial and good experiences with valid alternatives should keep their mouths shut? I spend a lot of time using HMs filtering tools am I not allowed to so much as tell people there are alternatives out there to your beloved leak buster? Perhaps for the HH analysis thread we should ask for people winrates before they're allowed to comment? Or that people who use pokertracker should be barred from commenting about it's features in a HM thread? Good god I hope you never become a mod anywhere!

I think anytime someone is providing opinions without valid information it should be noted. It was noted. Any discussion about alternatives to any products are always welcomed. We don't need you to admit that's what you did to move on with the discussion.

No I'm not a sales rep for them. :) I did do beta testing a couple of years with them, and I know several people in the company so of course I have some loyalty, but it's for good reason. They put out quality products I've benefited from.
 
John A

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Yikes. That battle is on. lol

Well, since I created most of Leak Buster, you guys can just ask me if you have any direct questions. My intent was to make it useful to primarily mid through micro stakes players. I know some high stakes players use it also, just for a check up.

I'd like to think I know poker pretty well since I've been very successful at it. If there's something specific you have a question about, please let me know.
 
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Hi John, when is the new updated version of Leakbuster being released? And what changes are you making to the interface?

Thanks.
 
John A

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Missed this I guess.

Goal is to release by the end of this week. I think we're going to be doing phases.

Primary changes are that everything is going to be contained within one screen, much easier to navigate and use. There's going to be a lot more content going up, as we're opening leak buster up to coaches. You'll also be able to export data, and get coaching directly from within leak buster.

The bigger task that we are doing a bulk of the current testing on is stake specific analysis. There's going to be greater emphasis put on specific leaks over other leaks depending on whether you primarily play micro, small, mid or high stakes. Right now, there's slight adjustments, and ranges change but only slightly, and things are not prioritized for every single potential leak. So going forward it will look at over 530+ leaks, and depending on stakes place an emphasis on certain areas over other areas.

Our goal is to really make leak buster a go to utility for any level of poker player. We have a lot of people involved on the project who are extremely good poker players, and their feedback has been really helpful.
 
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Sounds very good. I'm looking forward to the updates, and new content.

i definitely recommend Leakbuster for anyone playing cash games. I have gotten alot out of the program, and still run it after every session. Had a rough few days, so plan on going back and rewatching some of the videos.
 
John A

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Sounds very good. I'm looking forward to the updates, and new content.

i definitely recommend Leakbuster for anyone playing cash games. I have gotten alot out of the program, and still run it after every session. Had a rough few days, so plan on going back and rewatching some of the videos.

It will be very good. :) The biggest thing, and since it seems you're a customer an a fan, is to try and explain to the average forum posting online player that leak buster isn't just about stat ranges, and it actually has a ton of helpful information, even to winning experienced players. That's the hurdle that we're trying to get through to in the next couple of releases.

And FYI to anyone on CC, pricing is going up within the next couple of weeks. We haven't official announced this anywhere, but wanted to let you guys know. I believe it's only going up another $10, but $10 is $10. :)
 
Matt Vaughan

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I have a Mac and I use Wine to run Windows programs, but was not able to get the Leakbuster trial to work... Are there any alternatives short of getting other software to run Windows programs? I don't know of anything else that's free, and I'm wary of spending more than I need to.
 
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