How necessary is a HUD?

For those that don't know, HUD is a 'heads up display' that shows real time stats on tables of your opponents.

I am a tournament player and I am wondering if I should have this tool. I know a lot of players have it and one of my friends told me that I mind as well get it since it can only help.

I've had some decent scores, and have never used a HUD before.

So I am wondering, do other think I should be getting now? How much does it help?

Thanks in advance.

If you like winning money and want to improve your gameplay, get a HUD

If the cost of a program like PT4 or HEM seems prohibitive, yet depositing $50/$100 every few weeks seems okay, then I'd still say get a program, and re examine your play at the same time.

First, let's distinguish between HUD and tracker and the value of each.

Do you multitable at all? Do you play enough MTTs at one site often enough to run up against a lot of the same players regularly? Do you avoid taking notes on players because it's just too much of a hassle or too awkward in an online environment or just too distracting to your thought process?

If your answer to any of those questions is yes, then you can certainly benefit from a HUD. Even if you answer no to all of them, you may still benefit but it probably won't be worth as much to you.

Trackers, on the other hand, are invaluable, especially to the beginning or intermediate player, whether you use their included HUD or not. Trackers allow you to study your results outside the game, identifying leaks and opponent tendencies over many hands. They can help zero in on where you're spewing money, perhaps maybe you're playing too many hands from the blinds, or you're going to showdown too often. If you apply the effort to learning how to use a tracker to analyze your own play, your game and winrate will improve a drastically greater rate than just from using the HUD. But since the HUD is included with the major trackers, why NOT use it?

People get hung up on HUDs and how much they *think* they'll help you. They won't help you at all if you don't know how to read and apply them. Despite what a lot of the ignorant, rabid anti-tracker/HUD types claim, a HUD does not make you a winning/better player just by virtue of turning it on. In fact many beginners find it distracting and detrimental to their game because they're trying to figure it out while they play, or they become blind slaves to the stats. It can be a great tool but only when properly applied.

As mentioned, the cost of a tracker/HUD is so small for a serious player as to be a no-brainer investment IMO. It's 4 BI's @ 25NL, 2 @ 50NL. Even if you play lower than that, if you intend to take your game to the next level quickly through disciplined self-study, a tracker will get you there quicker than anything and will pay for itself in no time flat. Perhaps even a single session or two.

So you recomending HUD for beter game , ore just for safer game ?

I think it's both. You'll be able review your play, study opponents, make notes and develop plans away from the table. You'll be able to do in depth math you cannot do on the fly, and learn to apply it for the future.

dmorris68 said:

First, let's distinguish between HUD and tracker and the value of each.

Do you multitable at all? Do you play enough MTTs at one site often enough to run up against a lot of the same players regularly? Do you avoid taking notes on players because it's just too much of a hassle or too awkward in an online environment or just too distracting to your thought process?

If your answer to any of those questions is yes, then you can certainly benefit from a HUD. Even if you answer no to all of them, you may still benefit but it probably won't be worth as much to you.

Trackers, on the other hand, are invaluable, especially to the beginning or intermediate player, whether you use their included HUD or not. Trackers allow you to study your results outside the game, identifying leaks and opponent tendencies over many hands. They can help zero in on where you're spewing money, perhaps maybe you're playing too many hands from the blinds, or you're going to showdown too often. If you apply the effort to learning how to use a tracker to analyze your own play, your game and winrate will improve a drastically greater rate than just from using the HUD. But since the HUD is included with the major trackers, why NOT use it?

People get hung up on HUDs and how much they *think* they'll help you. They won't help you at all if you don't know how to read and apply them. Despite what a lot of the ignorant, rabid anti-tracker/HUD types claim, a HUD does not make you a winning/better player just by virtue of turning it on. In fact many beginners find it distracting and detrimental to their game because they're trying to figure it out while they play, or they become blind slaves to the stats. It can be a great tool but only when properly applied.

As mentioned, the cost of a tracker/HUD is so small for a serious player as to be a no-brainer investment IMO. It's 4 BI's @ 25NL, 2 @ 50NL. Even if you play lower than that, if you intend to take your game to the next level quickly through disciplined self-study, a tracker will get you there quicker than anything and will pay for itself in no time flat. Perhaps even a single session or two.

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Well written response, we have nothing to add, dmorris68 did a great job explaining the true value of tracking & HUDs.

Thanks all for the responses, above all dmorris68 for his post. I grind a lot of mid-stake mtts on pokerstars so I was on the fence about getting a tracking softward/HUD. I did have HM2 at one point but failed to properly set it up and never really used it, what a waste of $100 that was. Would this (HM2) be the recommend software to get? Or is there another one that is better?

Trackers, on the other hand, are invaluable, especially to the beginning or intermediate player, whether you use their included HUD or not. Trackers allow you to study your results outside the game, identifying leaks and opponent tendencies over many hands. They can help zero in on where you're spewing money, perhaps maybe you're playing too many hands from the blinds, or you're going to showdown too often. If you apply the effort to learning how to use a tracker to analyze your own play, your game and winrate will improve a drastically greater rate than just from using the HUD. But since the HUD is included with the major trackers, why NOT use it?

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Most invaluable piece of advice. I couldn't understand the Poker Co-Pilot when I first installed it and I made loose calls or folded prematurely when I was trying to figure out what it did and what certain things meant. I still don't know much about a tracker or how I interpret the data from it.

What are the basic things that I should look out for?

(Sorry for hijacking, if this is a hijack)

I agree with dmorris68 above. HUDs and trackers are both well worth the investment on both sides of the board. If you are playing at a specific level in a cardroom, sooner or later you will run up against the same players. HUDs along with note taking allows you an instant edge against someone who does neither. They have to get information from you every time they sit at a table with you, whereas you already have the information from the last time you took notes and your HUD tracked their play. Also, if you keep your HUD displaying your "current session" only for personal play, it will allow you to see the image you are giving to others about your own play, which can be manipulated to increase situational value(for example you have a super high c bet average and flop trips, checking would send red flags to them, but betting would give you a higher showdown average).

As said above, trackers are also great because they will show you everything from long term variance to your own missteps.

The biggest key is learning them inside and out when you get one. Spend a day educating yourself on what every classification means, how you can sync information between your personal notes and them, what you can change in them to optimize for quick decision making, etc. If you learn how to use one properly, it can definitely help your play in both a learning sense and a slight long term advantage against recurring opponents.

cpgd176 said:

I did have HM2 at one point but failed to properly set it up and never really used it, what a waste of $100 that was. Would this (HM2) be the recommend software to get? Or is there another one that is better?

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HM2 and PT4 are the current leaders in this space. Both have their pros and cons, and go about things in different ways or with different priorities. It's largely a matter of personal preference, and possibly where you play since one may support your favorite site or game type better than the other.

Speaking from personal experience, I have both HM2 and PT4, and use them both depending on where I'm playing. HM2 gets the larger percentage of my use since I've used it (and HM1) since their existence. I used PT2 for awhile and was using PT3 while it was in beta, but around that time HM1 came out and I liked it better. PT4 is quite an improvement so I could possibly be swayed to use it exclusively over HM2 now but just haven't put in the time and effort to learn it as well as I know HM2. Also they have some differences in "philosophies" that I'm not sure yet I agree with.

Bottom line: both are very capable and either would be worth your time to learn and use. Again, personal preference. If you already have HM2 then it seems logical that would be the one you'd go with, but you could also download the PT4 trial and see if you like it better, assuming you don't mind investing in both like I did.

blakewyte said:

Most invaluable piece of advice. I couldn't understand the Poker Co-Pilot when I first installed it and I made loose calls or folded prematurely when I was trying to figure out what it did and what certain things meant. I still don't know much about a tracker or how I interpret the data from it.

What are the basic things that I should look out for?

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This type of advice would be highly dependent on the player; what I look at and learn from might not be the best for you. Trackers are such complex beasts that a tutorial on doing everything is beyond my ability (or desire) to write up. I would encourage you to ask tracker-specific questions in the Poker Software forum which is frequented by support reps from both HM and PT. Or post in the Cash or Tournament strategy forum for advice from other players, as game type will determine how you interpret and act on your stats.

turtelliusshellius said:

The biggest key is learning them inside and out when you get one. Spend a day educating yourself on what every classification means, how you can sync information between your personal notes and them, what you can change in them to optimize for quick decision making, etc. If you learn how to use one properly, it can definitely help your play in both a learning sense and a slight long term advantage against recurring opponents.

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A day probably wouldn't be sufficient to really learn a tracker "inside and out." As mentioned, they can be highly complex beasts. But your overall point is valid in that the value of a tracker/HUD is directly proportion to how much effort you put into learning it. And not just learning the mechanics of the tool itself, but what all of the information gathered means and how it should be influencing your game play.

is important if you play cash as it gives good statistics villains .. and remember that anything that helps us to win this well, less cheating ... lol

Holdem manager or Poker tracker are programs very valuables for play cash. It is not the same playing blind that taking statistics of your opponents. In contrast, for tournaments is not so important. It is, sometimes its more statistics can often be misleading. Only is good in some cases for the theft of blind in the final stages of the tournament. It happens that each decision also depends on the position, the time of the tournament and the stacks of each of the players.
It is much better taking notes on the behavior of your opponents time and time again to then assess how plays.

^^^ This isn't entirely true.

While trackers/HUDs generally have a more immediate and obvious benefit in cash games, they are still highly valuable to tourney players. Especially those that multitable, and those that favor SNGs as they tend to play a lot of the same regs over and over. Even within the context of a single MTT, a HUD can be useful to consider how stats change at different levels to identify which players are adjusting and how.

PokerTracker said:

Well written response, we have nothing to add, dmorris68 did a great job explaining the true value of tracking & HUDs.

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+1, never a doubt that anything from dmorris wouldn't be such a great explanation. He is a wealth of knowledge and certainly a benefit to the great cc forum IMO.

cpgd176 said:

Thanks all for the responses, above all dmorris68 for his post. I grind a lot of mid-stake mtts on pokerstars so I was on the fence about getting a tracking softward/HUD. I did have HM2 at one point but failed to properly set it up and never really used it, what a waste of $100 that was. Would this (HM2) be the recommend software to get? Or is there another one that is better?

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You can email us and we can help with any questions you might have.

blakewyte said:

Most invaluable piece of advice. I couldn't understand the Poker Co-Pilot when I first installed it and I made loose calls or folded prematurely when I was trying to figure out what it did and what certain things meant. I still don't know much about a tracker or how I interpret the data from it.

What are the basic things that I should look out for?

(Sorry for hijacking, if this is a hijack)

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This is why we added new tools in PokerTracker 4 such as LeakTracker, it is designed to help you understand what each stat means, what the numbers represent, and how the stats work with each other to create a holistic approach to your play. The stats in the HUD don't matter that much on their own, for example nobody in the world really knows the difference between a 19% VPIP or a 23% VPIP - but all of the stats taken together can help you create an opponent profile in your mind - which helps you better understand who your opponent might be and predict how your opponent plays. For what its worth, this is something the human mind does naturally in a live game, but online we need other tools such as stats to accomplish this same natural function.

Are those winning player all have used Hud?How important role does Hud take?Does it depend on different people?

personally if youre gonna use a tracker or a hud i would slow down your play for a few days and try to study the information. especially a tracker. im not convinced a hud is all thet great myself. people play different in different situations so sometimes info can be misleading

tommy62278 said:

personally if youre gonna use a tracker or a hud i would slow down your play for a few days and try to study the information. especially a tracker. im not convinced a hud is all thet great myself. people play different in different situations so sometimes info can be misleading

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It should be noted that the HUD is a component of a tracker. A HUD is optional, you have the ability to disable it, where as a tracker should be considered mandatory for any player who wants to learn, improve, and review their play post game - or just for record keeping.

This is a great thread! I do not use any kind of assistive software tracker/HUD. I am primarily a live player and exclusively a tourney player.

I'm thinking about getting a tracker for christmas, but I have some reservations:

#1 I'm afraid it might "dull" my observation skills at a live game, like I might become too reliant on stats being readily available to me..

#2 I play primarily on Bovada and I'm pretty sure there is not a working tracker for Bovada, correct?

#3 Will it be worth the investment in time and money since I play $1-$10 tourneys and usually just 1-2 tables at a time?

#4 I am not very tech-savvy and am afraid I won't be able to install or properly use it

Here are the reasons I want one:

#1 It seems most serious players have it, and so I'm at an automatic disadvantage by not having an equal playing field.

#2 I'd like to know my OWN stats and how they measure up to my opinions of myself

#3 I'd like to be able to post hand histories and stats on the forums like other players can

I dont think anyone primarilly needs a HUD although I do find mass multi-tablers easy to play against since I know what they are doing and will try to use my image effectively against them, being deceptive or thinking about any obvious trends in my game they will be picking up on,

I do one day want to master HUD and hopefully mass multi table as a living.. But I want alot of things in life most of which are unlikely.
lol

missjacki said:

This is a great thread! I do not use any kind of assistive software tracker/HUD. I am primarily a live player and exclusively a tourney player.

I'm thinking about getting a tracker for christmas, but I have some reservations:

#1 I'm afraid it might "dull" my observation skills at a live game, like I might become too reliant on stats being readily available to me..

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It could actually have an opposite affect as well. I found that using a HUD and learning key stats about my opponents causes me to mentally pay more attention to those stats in live games. You're obviously not going to keep up with 4bet ranges or anything requiring big samples to converge into something meaningful, or complex & precise math, but just focusing on VPIP and RFI/PFR alone on a HUD can help you pay similar attention in a live game to counting how many hands people play.

Along those lines, a huge mistake that beginners often make with HUDs is putting too many stats on them. They're like kids in a candy store with an open credit line -- give me everything. You just can't work with that much data in real-time, you're doing more harm to yourself than good. I have a half-dozen key stats only on my HUD, and I've just added the last couple of those fairly recently. I still have all the other stats at hand in a popup just by clicking on the HUD when I need them. So by putting just the key stats on the HUD, your mind can focuse on those. When playing live, you're far more likely to use your brain as your "HUD" and have it mentally calculate similar stats. Not to the same precision of course, but it can hone your ability to pay attention to behaviors that might otherwise have been kinda nebulous and hard to pin down.

missjacki said:

#2 I play primarily on Bovada and I'm pretty sure there is not a working tracker for Bovada, correct?

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There's not a working real-time HUD apart from Hold'em Indicator that I know of. PT4/HM2 won't import Bovada hands directly, but there are 3rd party converters that will capture Bovada hands and convert them to a format that PT4/HM2 can import for your own stats and self-study. And as we've said before, the self-study aspect of a tracker is potentially far more valuable than HUD stats of your opponents.

missjacki said:

#3 Will it be worth the investment in time and money since I play $1-$10 tourneys and usually just 1-2 tables at a time?

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I think so. The investment is minimal compared to the potential ROI from finding just one or two leaks.

missjacki said:

#4 I am not very tech-savvy and am afraid I won't be able to install or properly use it

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They both have good support and online forums. Installing shouldn't be a big deal. Both have steep learning curves however, when it comes to everything they can do and how to use them properly. Good news is you don't have to master everything to start using them. They come with some preconfigured reports, filters, and HUD templates to get you started. As you learn, you can tweak and customize things from there.

missjacki said:

Here are the reasons I want one:

#1 It seems most serious players have it, and so I'm at an automatic disadvantage by not having an equal playing field.

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True. It's a tool available to all, so why not use it yourself? You can build a house with hand tools, or with power tools -- the choice is available to all, and those who choose modern power tools are going to be at a distinct advantage over those who don't.

missjacki said:

#2 I'd like to know my OWN stats and how they measure up to my opinions of myself

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This is the most valuable use of a tracker, as we've said.

missjacki said:

#3 I'd like to be able to post hand histories and stats on the forums like other players can

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You can certainly do that. Another advantage the major trackers have is they'll output a HH format that is forum-friendly even for sites that don't output such a format (assuming they support the site, obviously).

missjacki said:

This is a great thread!

#2 I play primarily on Bovada and I'm pretty sure there is not a working tracker for Bovada, correct?

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Holdem indicator works on brovada but it is not as good as HM2 or PT4 IMO. Also, it is kind of useless except in big tourneys where you get moved from table to table. In the later stages of the games it gives you good information. The problem is, it can not track the players over time because of the anonymous thing.

As for OP, I have a trail of HM2 right now. I really like it but it takes a ton of reading to understand all the numbers it gives you. Good info when you sit down to a cash table. Great bankroll management graphs. For $100 I think it is worth it.

If you are only playing tournaments I suggest you don't use it. You will get information on the players of your table with such a small sample that you could be playing with wrong information due tu variace. I think the best to play tournaments is to take notes. HUDs are really useful if you are a cash player, but it can get you into trouble in tournaments

The only thing I'll say regarding HUDs and trackers is that the results you get out are highly dependent upon what info you get put in. Over a long period of time a single player may exhibit many different traits and may also vary play greatly from one type of game to another. Notes are the best way to keep track of players IMHO but trackers are invaluable for analyzing your own game. Remember that one is able to purchase hand histories and player stats from various different websites; my personal view is it's complete BS and shouldn't be allowed, and it clearly tilts the playing field. You can purchase stats on players it could take years to collect on your own. These are all some of the reasons that Bovada moved to numbering players so all can remain "incognito". I like the idea but it eliminates any long term notes which I don't care for either. I believe HUDs should be banned from all poker sites (I'm sure the PT rep loves this) but players should be allowed to take long term notes and analyze their own game.