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PTR

PTR

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Hi CardsChat members!

Lots of CardsChat members already use PTR to give them an edge against their opponents, but there's some of you out there who have never heard of us. If you haven't already used PTR, check it out now! You get 10 free searches per day for just registering.

You can also upgrade to PTR Premium. PTR Premium helps you find the fish, avoid the sharks and get detailed stats on all their opponents. You can learn more about PTR Premium here.

What all our customers have in common is the desire to improve their game. And that's what PTR (and this forum) is all about - we want to help you become a better poker player.

Ask a question or post a suggestion now!
 
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BelgoSuisse

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Why do you sell hands for poker sites that explicitely prohibit using any hand histories that are not collected from your own play?
 
PTR

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Why do you sell hands for poker sites that explicitely prohibit using any hand histories that are not collected from your own play?

Getting straight to the tough questions I see :)

The simple truth is that we sell hand histories because we're a for-profit business.

But, we can sleep easy at night knowing that we're leveling the playing field. Instead of massive databases being available to only some players, we make easy for anyone to get information on their opponents. Large databases of observed hands have been around for quite some time. Until PokerTableRatings.com came around, these databases were mostly controlled by individual players or small groups of players. These players had a big advantage against the competition.

Also, without trying to get into a huge legal debate, we feel that hand histories and player stats are in the public domain. In the 2005 case of Major League Baseball Players Association vs. CDM, U.S. District Court Judge Mary Ann Medler ruled that "fantasy baseball leagues are allowed to use player names and statistics without licensing agreements because they are not the intellectual property of Major League Baseball."
 
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Pascal-lf

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I used to use PTR a lot, and found it extremely useful. However, since the new "credits" system I've found myself using it less and less. W

Why the 10 a day limitation? I can understand paying for all the extra stuff, but when I'm already being shown adverts while searching I'm not willing to pay as well.
 
PTR

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I used to use PTR a lot, and found it extremely useful.
I'm glad to hear you're a fan of PTR!

I can understand paying for all the extra stuff, but when I'm already being shown adverts while searching I'm not willing to pay as well.
The good news is that PTR Premium members are not shown any ads.

Why the 10 a day limitation?
Before we launched PTR Premium, we carefully analyzed how many searches users did per day. We put them into several buckets: casual users, serious users and hardcore users.

Casual users do less than 10 searches a day (mostly to rail poker celebrities and see how their friends are doing). We wanted PTR to remain free for casual users.

Serious users do an average of 30-35 searches per day. We're providing them a ton of value by helping improve their game so most of them were willing to invest $19.99/month for PTR Premium Silver or Pay-As-You-Go.

Hardcore users do over 35+ searches a day and can buy the Gold plan. They're using PTR like crazy to analyze their play, research their opponents and review hand histories. The value we provide these players is immense!
 
WVHillbilly

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How about a PTR opt out like so many tourney tracking sites do?
 
PTR

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How about a PTR opt out like so many tourney tracking sites do?

We get asked that question quite a bit!

There are 2 main reasons why we don't allow opt-outs:
  1. We want to create the best possible product for online poker players. Making information unavailable for some players makes PTR less valuable to our customers.
  2. Imagine we allowed opt-outs. Almost all the sharks would opt-out: there's no sense giving their opponents extra info right? The only people that wouldn't opt-out are the fish. It would be a really un-level playing field...
 
Pothole

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"fantasy baseball leagues are allowed to use player names and statistics without licensing agreements because they are not the intellectual property of Major League Baseball."

Aren't PS HH's the intellectual property of PS and the individual player?
 
PTR

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Aren't PS HH's the intellectual property of PS and the individual player?

That's a good question and there's no 100% clear-cut answer.

There are valid arguments that HH's are the intellectual property of PS and the player.

There are also valid legal arguments that HH's are in the public domain and no one has intellectual property rights on them.
 
brank

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And those arguments are.....??????
 
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Pothole

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That's a good question and there's no 100% clear-cut answer.

There are valid arguments that HH's are the intellectual property of PS and the player.

There are also valid legal arguments that HH's are in the public domain and no one has intellectual property rights on them.

They are in the public domain only because sites similar to yours data mine the site. Which to me is no different than hacking.
 
PTR

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And thse arguments are.....??????

I'm not a lawyer, but one of the most compelling arguments for me is that the results of a poker hand are a statement of fact. Facts are not copywritable and are automatically in the public domain.

- Michael
 
Pascal-lf

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They are in the public domain only because sites similar to yours data mine the site. Which to me is no different than hacking.

Anyone can sit there and watch the hands and write down what happens...
 
Pascal-lf

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I can ;)

You can sit down and watch ANY hand though, volume may be limited but access is not restricted.
 
dj11

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I just did a PTR on myself. As a tourney guy, PTR does not have enough on me to be significant in any way shape or form.

I have played a gazillion hands that are not showing up. Mostly RUSH ring games, which I think can not be recorded by anyone but the participants. Am I correct?

Also, I am of the mind that all recorded poker hands are fact, and not imaginary fabrications which would be covered by intellectual property rights and have no problem with publication.
 
cjatud2012

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I have played a gazillion hands that are not showing up. Mostly RUSH ring games, which I think can not be recorded by anyone but the participants. Am I correct?

Yes, this is correct.
 
pfb8888

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do you ban people from your site if they use your info to berate and embarass other players?
 
onebourbon

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I guess it's only good for cash tables not tournies....I'm pretty sure I've played more than 1366 hands in one year - April 09 to April 10 - I play that many hands on a bad weekend.....lol
 
PTR

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do you ban people from your site if they use your info to berate and embarass other players?

Hi pfb8888,

We can't tell if a player uses PTR info to insult another player on pokerstars, Full Tilt, etc.

However, there have been cases where we received a complaint about an excessively rude comment on a player's wall on PokerTableRatings.com and we took it down.

- Michael
 
BelgoSuisse

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Could you make an analysis of who wins and who loses from FTP's move from dealt rake to weighted contributed rake?
 
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onemorechance

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Do you think what you do is ethical?
 
PTR

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I just did a PTR on myself. As a tourney guy, PTR does not have enough on me to be significant in any way shape or form.

I have played a gazillion hands that are not showing up. Mostly RUSH ring games, which I think can not be recorded by anyone but the participants. Am I correct?

Also, I am of the mind that all recorded poker hands are fact, and not imaginary fabrications which would be covered by intellectual property rights and have no problem with publication.


Hi dj11,

PokerTableRatings.com does not currently track Rush games. However, we do track around 95% of cash game hands on all the major poker rooms.

- Michael
 
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