Your thoughts?.. (P,KK)

L

lukyl

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average stack is ~22k, blinds are at 800-1600.
sitting in MP, Dealt KK, action folded to me, i raise to 4000
folds all around to BB, BB calls.
Both me and BB have ~25k
Flop: 8,8,6
BB checks
I bet 5500
BB is hesitant, then calls
Turn: 6
BB checks
I Shove
BB snap calls
BB shows quad sixes

Did i misplay this? or just run into a unfortunate situation?
I had him him on AJo or better calling from the BB.
then on the flop the flat call confused me.
a shove after his check seemed at the time to be the most viable option, but in hindsight i cant figure out if he was calling with anything worse.. and after a flat on flop, i dont see him having not made a hand, e.g A6s..

any thoughts?
 
trucker103

trucker103

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well the flop would of scared me with a set out there
he hesitated to see how much he could get paid
and u shoved right into it ! bad call on the shove min raise there to see if he was gonna go for it that would of made u think boat at least !
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

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The avg. stack size matters less than the effective stack size. Unless some unusual circumstances apply, where's the problem? At the point when you shove, he has you beat with 88 (1 combo), 66 (1) or AA (6). Also 86 (4), but let's assume he would have folded that pre.

Otoh, how many combos are in his range that you're ahead of? 99-QQ fit, which is 24 combos. You can discount this somewhat because he might have taken other lines, but you can also say the same about AA. Some people playing tight might have folded 66 or 88 pre- too.

So overall, it looks like you're well ahead of his range.
 
flatcaller

flatcaller

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unlucky spot i also wold have play this hand similar to you. looking at the hand you must wonder what he flats with on the flop but so many ppl time and again will not raise in his spot with 99-qq maybe even an AK hero flat type of a hand. After your continue on the flop with what the blinds are at and your stack size you are not folding regardless. You played it fine just a bad spot
 
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Nooneinparticular

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I have to disagree. He has a small pocket pair, and is being asked to put 2400 into a pot of 6600. So he's getting 2.6 to 1 to call, and he has a pocket pair. Are you really going to let someone take your BB away with that? Surely see a flop and reevaluate.

In this one, he does of course luck out. But his flat call on the flop screams MONSTER. I just don't see what in his pre flop range he calls with and then flats with. its unlikely he has 66, or 88, but to find out why push? Min bet, see what he does.......
 
W

WiZZiM

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I have to disagree. He has a small pocket pair, and is being asked to put 2400 into a pot of 6600. So he's getting 2.6 to 1 to call, and he has a pocket pair. Are you really going to let someone take your BB away with that? Surely see a flop and reevaluate.

In this one, he does of course luck out. But his flat call on the flop screams MONSTER. I just don't see what in his pre flop range he calls with and then flats with. its unlikely he has 66, or 88, but to find out why push? Min bet, see what he does.......

2400 out of a stack of 25k. Long term do you really think calling that blind is a good idea? Lets just do some guesstimates here. Lets say the flop comes with cards higher than our 66 some 60% of the time. So automatically, we're screwed. Out of the other 40%, lets say 30-35% of flops we're kinda ok about, but we really have no idea. Then that leaves the 5% of flops we're over the moon about. So it's really not as simple as saying we're getting 2.6 to 1 on a call here now is it? We're too short to be dicking around postflop, we have only a few moves, and most of those moves on the flop involve folding and looking stupid.

OP played the hand fine, getting it in here with KK all day long, there really isn't anything else to think about.
 
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Sori

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yea I think giving us your stack compared with the villians stack size would help. However i think you played this fine and I know that I am not getting rid of KK here. I think the shove works because, depending on stack size, I'm not sure you could fold once you bet the turn anyway so my as well get it in.
 
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Nooneinparticular

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2400 out of a stack of 25k. Long term do you really think calling that blind is a good idea? Lets just do some guesstimates here. Lets say the flop comes with cards higher than our 66 some 60% of the time. So automatically, we're screwed. Out of the other 40%, lets say 30-35% of flops we're kinda ok about, but we really have no idea. Then that leaves the 5% of flops we're over the moon about. So it's really not as simple as saying we're getting 2.6 to 1 on a call here now is it? We're too short to be dicking around postflop, we have only a few moves, and most of those moves on the flop involve folding and looking stupid.

OP played the hand fine, getting it in here with KK all day long, there really isn't anything else to think about.
So 40% of the time we are fine. Or 2.5 to 1. We're getting 2.6 to one. So its slightly +EV, even before you factor in stacking him off if you make your set.

60% for 3 overcards feels to high as well, can someone work it out? 2 overcards, yes, but 3, no.....

It's one of those close call decisions, and for me, I like to protect my BB so it doesn't get stolen, so investing 2400 on a very slightly +EV isn't a bad play, but probably not a good one either.....
 
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Nooneinparticular

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Oh I quite like looking stupid. It makes you harder to read, and why would you want to advertise how much you know?

I sometimes play a live game on a tuesday which is populated by a load of numpties who think they are incredible at the game because they can spin chips through the air into the pot and show some bad bluffs. I just don't get why people like to appear great, instead of winning.....!
 
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