Why The F*** Do I Do This?

Lotok

Lotok

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This really is in the context of live games. I have noticed a pattern when I get put out of tournaments.

I usually do quite well, mostly getting to the last table. I play tight all night. In early positions my range is JJ -> AA and all in between. In late positions I will play with a T as well. Throughout the game I don't overplay my cards but play aggressive when I have something decent.

BUT, for some stupid reason, late in the tournament my asshole brain starts messing with me. For example last night.

I am BB (AT), 2 others fold and 2 calls. so 3 still in.
I raise to 3xBB
1 folds and 1 shoves all in.

Now **I KNOW** to fold but because of his previous showdowns (loose) I convince myself to call him. Now I know pot odds here are crazy bad, I know my hand is not that strong but something, maybe even a weird sense of pride or insanity makes me call. Looking at each time I am out a tournament its for the same reasons. I play tight all night and then do something stupid.

he had AA and flop/turn/river gave us nothing. so he won.

It's just weird, I cant seem to help screwing myself over on stupid moves like that.
 
NCDaddy

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<----same here on occasion. My problem is I get tired and out of focus and talk myself into "he's bluffing".....I've had to learn that patience is key throughout.....no easy task. I feel ya.
 
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lukyl

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Yeah, i too suffer from the same type of thing, in that i feel i have a sub-conscious need to sabotage myself when im in a position for success, always thoughtfully making the wrong decisions after convincing myself of something obviously more improbable then the opportunity to get away from it.
 
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hffjd2000

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All of us I believe experienced that condition. We seems not consistent enough to maintain our PATIENCE.

From wikipedia:
Patience (or forbearing) is the state of endurance under difficult circumstances, which can mean persevering in the face of delay or provocation without acting on annoyance/anger in a negative way; or exhibiting forbearance when under strain, especially when faced with longer-term difficulties. Patience is the level of endurance one can take before negativity. It is also used to refer to the character trait of being steadfast.

I think the best thing to do: Before the tournament, we should condition/prepare our body and mind to endure that long hours of play that is affecting our decisions.
 
Arjonius

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It's not just a matter of patience, but also of impulse control. These two things overlap, sometimes quite a bit, but are not the same thing.
 
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RickH1983

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What were the stack sizes? Your problem is you over valued your starting hand. A lot of hands could have beat AT. AK AQ AJ AA KK QQ JJ TT beats you. You have to be patient and not just play any A. You just need to learn to fold those hands and continue to play the tournament.
 
IPlay

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If he opened shoved this call may be different but limp shoving pre is almost always a monster(AA). Pretty horrible call and should of been an insanely easy fold.

You need to think about this exact hand next time you are deep in a tourney and maintain your mental state
 
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HollyMichelle13

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Sounds like tiredness is your issue. Just be patient and wait for the right spots. If you feel like your going to make a bad decision stand up leave the table for a minute and take a brisk walk.
 
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lost2qandisa

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Fatigue is one of the worst enemies of a poker player. It is just like at work. You do a good job all day but within an hour of getting off, you start to think screw it, I got get this done so I can go home. You do what you have to just to get it done. It may not be your best work but at least it is done. I think our brains are wired like this.
 
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vic75

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This happens a lot when you are I T M i would just settle too see a flop with A 10 was it suited?? not call an all in hmm limping in with AA you don't see this play too often
 
Lotok

Lotok

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I can't defend the call, it was stupid and even before it was over I had instant regret. I convinced myself he was buying the blind. I knew my hands was weak, really don't know why I called that after being tight all night.

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Lotok

Lotok

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What were the stack sizes? Your problem is you over valued your starting hand. A lot of hands could have beat AT. AK AQ AJ AA KK QQ JJ TT beats you. You have to be patient and not just play any A. You just need to learn to fold those hands and continue to play the tournament.

I often play T when in late position. This kind of call is not typical of how I play, well until late in tournament. Probably is tiredness and impatience. Might play without drinks next time incase alcohol is to blame. Next tournament is tomorrow night.

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angelluv725

angelluv725

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After two hours being in a tournament I become very tired and lose focus. Maybe that's a good time to sit out a few hands and move around or take a short walk ?
Love all the comments. Thanks for sharing. I have lots to learn. :)
 
Four Dogs

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I guess I'm the only one who thinks you didn't make a mistake here. Well, I am missing some relevant information such as stack sizes and opponent reads, but assuming this is the normal late stages of tournament and stack sizes are in the 10-40bb range I'm calling this alot of the times and barring some amazing read on my opponent I'm calling 20bb's everytime.

I completely disagree with the previous that a limp shove almost always means AA, bad players do this with a shit ton of other hands, especially in the late stages of a tournament, far too many for you to fold a hand like AT. Yeah, you'll feel pretty foolish when he turns over Aces or higher broadways but often enough it's going to be a pair or KQ-JTs type hands; hands that he just can't fold once he's put a penny in the pot and that he's afraid to play post flop vs a PF raiser. And in reality re-shoving any 2 cards isn't all that horrible a play, especially if you think you can get hands like AT to fold. And if you get called you're usually getting pretty decent odds.

Here's a list of all the hands that have limp shoved on me when I raised from the BB in tournaments where I've called with any ace hands, high pairs and KQ-Q9s. I didn't include Blind vs Blind battles 'cause that's a completely different animal.

(4)KK
(2)AKo
(1)AQs
(3)AJo
(1)A9s
(1)A8o
(1)A6o
(1)A3o
(1)KQs
(3)KQo
(1)KJo
(1)KTo
(2)Q9s
(1)Q6o
(1)89s
(1)87s
(1)77
(2)66

In 28 instances I never saw AA. That is strange.

If I had been holding AT I would have been a favorite 15 Times, a coinflip 3 times and about a 3:1 dog about 10 times. Even in these cases you might be getting the right odds if stacks are short enough and the blinds and antes are high. Poker is a very complicated game (tournaments even more so) and sometimes the correct play seems counterintuitive. Strangely, this is one of those situations where the least experienced players are the most likely to make the right move. Folding AT here feels right but is clearly wrong. That said, most bad players will call, while most players with a little experience will fold. How weird is that?
 
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Swickster007

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I do the same thing once I get late into a tourney. I think it's the fact of knowing that you have already beaten a bunch of players and now you are looking at limited hands (compared to how many you went through to get there). I'm not real sure why or where the bad plays generate from, but it happens to all of us.
 
suby_rafael

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learning from mistakes

Well firstly with A10 in the bb you could have easily peeled a flop and raising was a mistake especially in such a late stage of a tournament. Well everybody makes mistakes now and then but the important thing is to realize that you made a mistake and correct it if you can.
So when you get raised and get shoved by one of the limpers you should have realized your mistake and that you were behind and you should have got out of the hand because you still had a chance in the tournament. But the second mistake that you did here was that you talked yourself into calling by looking at pot odds. Well the best thing to do now is the realize these two mistakes and try to not repeat them in future.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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I'm starting to overcome my self sabotage impulse....though admittedly I've never had much of one....I've always been extremely patient. My biggest thing I had to learn to be a better player was aggression, I always had the patience.

But something I USED to do was in a situation like you described if I had a hand like 77 I would jam and then get called by AA or AK or even JT and be out. after all that patience just blowing up all my equity on 1 stupid hand because "I figured it was the best hand"

I've finally learned that thinking you have the best hand is not a good enough reason to risk your tourney life.

Now that I'm much more comfortable playing post flop, I'll see a flop with those hands and get my money in good, or when I smell weakness.
 
Lotok

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On final table again but seriously short stacked, 2x bb. Double up or walk away time.

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redcoyote211

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patience

its something we need to play any game.especially a final table.do remember they(other finalists) are at the table along with u for the same reasons that got you there.you said it yourself and you know the cause ,so u know the solution ,just got to apply it.knowing is half the battle.lol:D
 
vnonline

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Well. this is not your own problem so you're not the only one have "asshole brain" :D
Some opponents make us hard to guess what they have and we fall in traps. They make us play in bad mood and forget what is happening in the game.
 
Lotok

Lotok

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Never had the same issue last night. Hitting last table short stacked and getting nothing strong enough to double up was what put me out. Which is an honourable exit

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I agree with four dogs completely! I had a similar experience a couple of nights ago. I had AK suited so it was an easy call, but the guy showed up with 7 5 offsuit. Unfortunately he sucked out and hit 2 pair, but ive seen alot of guys make plays like that extremely wide!
 
Four Dogs

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I agree with four dogs completely! I had a similar experience a couple of nights ago. I had AK suited so it was an easy call, but the guy showed up with 7 5 offsuit. Unfortunately he sucked out and hit 2 pair, but ive seen alot of guys make plays like that extremely wide!
Finally! lol. I thought I made a pretty good case. Welcome to the club you winner you.:)
 
Lotok

Lotok

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I played in a £600 (about $1000) pot tournament on Saturday. I was joint winner, it took so long we agreed to split it. I managed to keep my head and not do anything stupid second time in a row. Both times not drinking too much alcohol was key I think.
 
JustDestined

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Getting up and taking a short walk when I feel myself getting mentally fatigued has definitely helped me. At first I didn't even realize it was mental fatigue, but now I've learned to spot it and go grab a drink and a smoke and come back refreshed and ready to make good decisions.
 
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