Where did I play this wrong?

JakeBeede · Feb 26, 2017

God Im so mad at myself.... I've been consistantly getting myself to the bubble/early in the money with a solid stack and i get myself into trouble in this exact situation of taking unneccessary risks to grow my stack, but it ends up biting me in the ASS!!! I just know I'm not ready to make the leap to the final table... Where did I go wrong? I mean if i called the 4bet, I would have prob went all in on the flop too. So i was screwed either way!

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 500/1,000 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 13.13 BB (VPIP: 15.85, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 8.70, hands: 83)
MP: 26.75 BB (VPIP: 21.31, PFR: 13.79, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 64)
MP+1: 17.95 BB (VPIP: 14.81, PFR: 14.81, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 27)
MP+2: 20.5 BB (VPIP: 15.15, PFR: 16.13, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 34)
Hero (CO): 54.53 BB
BTN: 12.43 BB (VPIP: 13.64, PFR: 12.20, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 44)
SB: 59.18 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
BB: 34.91 BB (VPIP: 8.82, PFR: 5.88, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 35)
UTG: 24.43 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)

9 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.4 BB) Hero has K♦ A♣

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, SB raises to 9 BB, fold, Hero raises to 54.43 BB and is all-in, SB calls 45.43 BB

Flop: (110.76 BB, 2 players) K♣ 6♠ 5♦

Turn: (110.76 BB, 2 players) Q♣

River: (110.76 BB, 2 players) J♠

Hero shows K♦ A♣ (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 30%, Flop 0.3%, Turn 0%)
SB shows K♥ K♠ (Three of a Kind, Kings)
(Pre 70%, Flop 99.7%, Turn 100%)
SB wins 110.76 BB

kozong · Feb 26, 2017

nh, gg, & move on

having unlucky moments are just part of poker

JakeBeede · Feb 26, 2017

So I shouldnt have just called the 3bet to keep the pot small, knowing that the guy had me covered with a big stack? Maybe I could have kept the pot small enough to where I dont lose my stack?

Omahahahaha · Feb 26, 2017

Well the question is what sort of hands would the small blind reraise with? You have only 5 hands on him so it is going to be tough to say for sure. Actually just calling the re-raise looks pretty reasonable as well. It depends in part on if you think he could ever have AQ, AJ or KQ and if he would be willing to stack off with these hands if he had them. I think you played it fine though.

Lerts · Feb 26, 2017

Calling the reraise wouldve been fine considering you've only seen the guy played 5 hands and you dont have much info on him(dont know what type of player he is), in a case like this where he reraised, assume hes at the top of his range (AA, KK, QQ), so calling the reraise with this player at this particular time would have been fine and then re-evaluate on the flop. However AK is not a bad hand to go all in with tho, just unfortunate.

shinedown.45 · Feb 27, 2017

JakeBeede said:
So I shouldnt have just called the 3bet to keep the pot small, knowing that the guy had me covered with a big stack? Maybe I could have kept the pot small enough to where I dont lose my stack?

I really don't see a problem just calling his 3 bet considering that he is new to the table.
I have made similar moves not taking into consideration that the player is relatively new to the table and it has costed me a few tournaments.

sillymunchie · Feb 28, 2017

well specifically I'm just looking at your stack.
with 54bb in your hand you raised 3bb, he re raises 9BB

by calling his bet your leaving yourself 45bb
Once you hit the King, how do you find out where you stand?
pot is at that stage around 20bb
his cbet will be around 15bb meaning just to find out where you stand after hitting your all in
The only good thing is if you miss you get out free and survive the bubble, but that's not important if your going to throw in 1/5th of your stack and fold, how often are you willing to do that?

these are all questions you should be asking yourself at the moment and I do believe just flat calling here is -EV all the way

if you have only seen your opponent play 5 hands all tourney and your close to the bubble, I think you CAN lay it down pre, but against most opponents that would be a mistake its something only you can judge based on your experience with your opponent

so maybe a bit of personal advice I could give on the way you played your hand.....

do you play AA, AK and KK with 3x bets usually, what about your other type of hands?
is your hand polarized so your opponent knows what your holding?
again this could be an indication of his strength, because if he knows you have a TOP hand, and still plays aggressively warning bells CAN set off

another reason I asked that question is, if you play all your raises 3x, then maybe one way you could of played the hand better was your bet sizing
at such a late stage of the tourney your bets do not need to be as high

lets see how it would of played out if you hadn't
you min raise 2xbb he reraises 6xbb, you 4bet 18bb (leaving yourself 36bb)
he obv all in shoves here, and you can decide if your ahead or want to gamble etc etc

the problem with min raising is it does look weaker, so you can change it to 2.2x which looks stronger, but eventually a min raise is all it will take to get players off of small holdings and in poker you never want to put more chips in then you need to, and coming to the bubble usually a min raise will get you the desired effect

NCDaddy · Feb 28, 2017

If you're kicking yourself for shoving, ask yourself, what would you have done on the flop? Your chips were going in, one way or another. You made an aggressive play pre-flop with a nice hand. Nothing wrong there at all. The only thing that would make it a bad play is if the opponent had only showed AA or KK all tourney and otherwise folded. If that's the case, fold to the 3 bet. But, that's unlikely, I'm sure.

disorder64 · Feb 28, 2017

There's a chance you wouldn't have gotten away from the hand post flop, but that doesn't mean that getting it in pre flop was the right play (try not to be results oriented, but rather break down your hands by each street to determine whether you made the optimal play in that position).

A few things... you had 54 blinds, and by the look of the other stacks at the table, you were sitting pretty good at that point in the tournament. You were reraised, and while that could have been a squeeze from the SB, you dont really have any history on the player. And, the pot is only around 14BBs. I dont like a shove here, unless you have information on the player (a reason to believe he will fold or will call with a weak hand). Its your tournament life on the line, and no reason to put it all on an AK. [edit: if you are short stacked in the same position, you are almost always getitng it all in pre]

With the stack sizes as they were, and with little to no info on villain, I like a call here. You're in position, and you can easily get away with plenty of chips, if you whiff the flop.

This hand would have been interesting post flop, if it had played out. Villain is likely not betting the flop, and if you bet, he is unlikely to raise. That was a pretty dry flop, and he wants to get max value.

The turn put a straight and flush draw on the board, so if the flop did go check, check, it is likely SB would bet, but unlikely it would be a huge bet. I would think somewhere around 10-12 BBs. Calling this leaves you with around 38 blinds. River bet could be anywhere from 1/3 of the pot to a shove... really depends on what he puts you on. If he puts you on that AK and doesn't think you can get away from it, then he might shove. Its hard to put you on many hands that you would be able to call with at that point... any other hand that you're like to have raised and then called a reraise with would have hit and set you up to call as well (ex QQ or JJ). If he happens to think you are weak, but will call a small bet, he might go that route, though. Its a possibility you leave yourself with chips in this scenario, but pretty short compared to where you were.

If you bet the flop, he will likely just call, and probably check call or check raise the turn. This gets more chips in the pot, and you end up with all your chips in the pot.

Overall, most people are getting their chips in in this spot, whether pre or post flop, but there are going to be places where you have to lay these hands down. You asked where you went wrong.... I am not sure you necessarily did anything 'wrong', but you have to be able to take these chances and know that they wont always work out. If it had worked, you would have had a really nice stack (I am guessing well above average). If I dont know where I am in a hand, I like to keep pots small and leave myself ways to get out of a hand if needed.

alizadyx · Mar 1, 2017

Bad Call

Hello, Everyone!

Little analysis from me:

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 500/1,000 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 13.13 BB (VPIP: 15.85, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 8.70, Hands: 83)
MP: 26.75 BB (VPIP: 21.31, PFR: 13.79, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 64)
MP+1: 17.95 BB (VPIP: 14.81, PFR: 14.81, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 27)
MP+2: 20.5 BB (VPIP: 15.15, PFR: 16.13, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 34)
Hero (CO): 54.53 BB
BTN: 12.43 BB (VPIP: 13.64, PFR: 12.20, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 44)
SB: 59.18 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
BB: 34.91 BB (VPIP: 8.82, PFR: 5.88, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 35)
UTG: 24.43 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)

9 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.4 BB) Hero has K♦ A♣

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB(This Is a right thing to do, you have AK, 54 BB, Good decision!), fold, SB raises to 9 BBAfter he reraised you should have looked at his stats, I know 5 hands is not that much, but his VPIP is 0 which means he is definitely tight player. Besides that, he covers you which is not good and makes you put your whole stack at risk. I'd usually try to play against those that I cover, fold, Hero raises to 54.43 BB and is all-in I'd never do this. 1st as I said you are covered... second your opponents VPIP... third is the situation at the table, you are one of the chip leaders and don't need to risk it all. I would have even folded I think. Mistake people usually make is that they assume other player is bluffing... The villain is sitting at SB(very tight position), he is a tight player by VPIP and he is 3 betting you... I think you should have folded., SB calls 45.43 BB

Flop: (110.76 BB, 2 players) K♣ 6♠ 5♦

Turn: (110.76 BB, 2 players) Q♣

River: (110.76 BB, 2 players) J♠

Hero shows K♦ A♣ (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 30%, Flop 0.3%, Turn 0%)
SB shows K♥ K♠ (Three of a Kind, Kings)
(Pre 70%, Flop 99.7%, Turn 100%)
SB wins 110.76 BB

What I hate about these hands is that they almost always get you in trouble...) Regards!) Just my opinion)

shinedown.45 · Mar 1, 2017

alizadyx said:
Hello, Everyone!

Little analysis from me:

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - 500/1,000 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG+1: 13.13 BB (VPIP: 15.85, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 8.70, Hands: 83)
MP: 26.75 BB (VPIP: 21.31, PFR: 13.79, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 64)
MP+1: 17.95 BB (VPIP: 14.81, PFR: 14.81, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 27)
MP+2: 20.5 BB (VPIP: 15.15, PFR: 16.13, 3Bet Preflop: 7.69, Hands: 34)
Hero (CO): 54.53 BB
BTN: 12.43 BB (VPIP: 13.64, PFR: 12.20, 3Bet Preflop: 6.67, Hands: 44)
SB: 59.18 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
BB: 34.91 BB (VPIP: 8.82, PFR: 5.88, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 35)
UTG: 24.43 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)

9 players post ante of 0.1 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.4 BB) Hero has K♦ A♣

fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3 BB(This Is a right thing to do, you have AK, 54 BB, Good decision!), fold, SB raises to 9 BBAfter he reraised you should have looked at his stats, I know 5 hands is not that much, but his VPIP is 0 which means he is definitely tight player. Besides that, he covers you which is not good and makes you put your whole stack at risk. I'd usually try to play against those that I cover, fold, Hero raises to 54.43 BB and is all-in I'd never do this. 1st as I said you are covered... second your opponents VPIP... third is the situation at the table, you are one of the chip leaders and don't need to risk it all. I would have even folded I think. Mistake people usually make is that they assume other player is bluffing... The villain is sitting at SB(very tight position), he is a tight player by VPIP and he is 3 betting you... I think you should have folded., SB calls 45.43 BB

Flop: (110.76 BB, 2 players) K♣ 6♠ 5♦

Turn: (110.76 BB, 2 players) Q♣

River: (110.76 BB, 2 players) J♠

Hero shows K♦ A♣ (One Pair, Kings)
(Pre 30%, Flop 0.3%, Turn 0%)
SB shows K♥ K♠ (Three of a Kind, Kings)
(Pre 70%, Flop 99.7%, Turn 100%)
SB wins 110.76 BB

What I hate about these hands is that they almost always get you in trouble...) Regards!) Just my opinion)

5 hands on opponent is not even a small fraction to base the stats on whether his opponent is tight, the opponent could be a loose player who just hasn't had a hand fall with-in his range yet, quite possible, how many times have you went on a 10-15 hand or more dry spell?
With that said, OPs decision should have been made on the fact that he had no info on opponent.

alizadyx · Mar 1, 2017

shinedown.45 said:
5 hands on opponent is not even a small fraction to base the stats on whether his opponent is tight, the opponent could be a loose player who just hasn't had a hand fall with-in his range yet, quite possible, how many times have you went on a 10-15 hand or more dry spell?
With that said, OPs decision should have been made on the fact that he had no info on opponent.

Villain already during those 5 hands that he sits out had a chance to play from mp, co and button (where you usually get loose), I'd definetly think that he is a tight player since he sits out all those positions.

masha535 · Mar 1, 2017

Well, from it nobody is insured .... it is cooler here , and all very common !!!! there's no escape

kidkvno1 · Mar 1, 2017

shinedown.45 said:
I really don't see a problem just calling his 3 bet considering that he is new to the table.
I have made similar moves not taking into consideration that the player is relatively new to the table and it has costed me a few tournaments.

IDK, If I would even make the call, AK is a good starting but it is not a made hand.

Tho I'll say that re-raise, to all-in was a really bad move.

Jim Brown · Mar 1, 2017

Fairly standard cooler. 5 hand sample is irrelevant for reads. Calling 1/6 of your stack to fold this flop would be crazy.

I would open smaller, 2.2 with antes. Then SB likely 3 bets smaller as well, maybe around 5 to 6, and you could 4 bet 11 to 13 and possibly fold to a 5 bet pre depending on reads, leaving over 40bb still second at the table. SB should be pretty snug, but random spew happens so who knows. I'm probably never folding AK this hand at microstakes.

psmcb · Mar 4, 2017

oh-ho, it's bad. it's sad. try not to take risks when the bubble

ph_il · Mar 5, 2017

I snap call with AK here.

...Then again, I pretty much snap call with AK in most situations.

We're only behind AA and KK and we block 2 combinations. Players are capable of jamming weaker aces like AQ, AJs, we flip against 22-QQ, and a slight favorite against non paired hands like QJ, J10.

Easy call (for me). Unlucky results.

Where did I play this wrong?

JakeBeede

Rising Star

kozong

Legend

JakeBeede

Rising Star

Omahahahaha

Visionary

Lerts

Visionary

shinedown.45

Legend

sillymunchie

Visionary

NCDaddy

Visionary

disorder64

Rising Star

alizadyx

Rising Star

shinedown.45

Legend

alizadyx

Rising Star

masha535

Rock Star

kidkvno1

Sarah's Pet

Jim Brown

Rock Star

psmcb

Enthusiast

ph_il

...

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