when to let go of three bet

wildyetty

wildyetty

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K Im the BB delt 10 10
- min raised from the highjack position
- I 3 bet 3x his raise

now i went on to win hand after dry flop with a c-bet... my question is do i fold if he comes back over the top of me? i had twice his stack an sitting 200 BB's in the SnG
 
12551255

12551255

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Tough question without any read or knowledge of the other player.
 
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nygmen2007

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This is a very interesting concept because I like to defend what I put out there. I would have to say though it depends on the stage of the oturney your table image and the image of the person making the move. It comes down to all that information to make the best decision possible..
 
wildyetty

wildyetty

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we were 45 hands deep in a $3.50 45 man SnG. blinds were 25/50 ante 6, 8 handed me 6200 chips him 3200
i saw him for 6 hands an he called an all-in with 22 vs AA hand before and rivered a deuce to double up. (only hand i saw him play)
 
dopeddrgn

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There is no fold here only call. Or, there is no Dana here only Zuul.
 
limpnfold88

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K Im the BB delt 10 10
- min raised from the highjack position
- I 3 bet 3x his raise

now i went on to win hand after dry flop with a c-bet... my question is do i fold if he comes back over the top of me? i had twice his stack an sitting 200 BB's in the SnG

You're leaving out so much information this is impossible to answer accurately. What kind of game is it (cash, mtt, sng, hu sng), what's your table image, what's his table image, any past history with this player, etc. This question is so general that you can't get a +ev response without knowing much more about the situation.
 
wildyetty

wildyetty

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You're leaving out so much information this is impossible to answer accurately. What kind of game is it (cash, mtt, sng, hu sng), what's your table image, what's his table image, any past history with this player, etc. This question is so general that you can't get a +ev response without knowing much more about the situation.

read the forth comment i filled in the rest of info
 
timfbmx

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What was the flop? I think a lot of what you would decide to do depends on the type of player he is. In my opinion in those type of spots the villian has a big straight or flush draw a large percentage of the time. Every now and than people will overbet shove there sets tho so it's tough. Basically comes down to your intuition and how he has been playing. That's why you should always be taking notes on the players to help you with these tough spots :D
 
wildyetty

wildyetty

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the flop came 774 mixed suit i won with c-bet im just asking if he were to come back over top of me pre-flop with a 900 or 1200 chip 4-bet concidering what he shoved hand before

we were 45 hands deep in a $3.50 45 man SnG. blinds were 25/50 ante 6, 8 handed me 6200 chips him 3200
i saw him for 6 hands an he called an all-in with 22 vs AA hand before and rivered a deuce to double up. (only hand i saw him play)
 
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bbiase

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It's not really a tough spot to be. Since he just flat your 3-bet preflop, it's unlikely he would have JJ+. If he was set mining and flopped 4s full of 7s, I doubt he would be raising, as it could scare you and cost him some value on later streets. Sure this flop fits best his range (flatting 3-bet on the button, looks like suited connector or small PP) than yours, but I don't see anyone with a monster and in position NOT slowplaying this hand. I imagine that if he was holding a strong pair, like QQ+, and he was going for a trap, he would keep his trapping strategy and keep slowplaying his big hand.

I would be pretty comfortable after some thought, of shoving any raise. A 4-bet on the flop looks doesn't make any sense, unless he's holding 56s or 66-22, minus 44. Since he folded to a C-Bet, I'd put him on a weak ace, or a KT, KJ or a 89s-KQs suited connector hand. No reason to freak out to a 4-bet, but I understand that poor players can make you confused and induce a mistake.

In this case, raising with a monster is really a bad play and can confuse you. But I tend to think even worst players understand the benefits of slowplaying monsters. If he is a good player, he would know that you could be 3-betting blind vs button with any two cards. One more reason for him to slowplay his monster/try to bluff or semi-bluff the flop. Anyways, this leads to the only conclusion: SHOVE. Three possible scenarios: 1 - he folds his bluff/semi-bluff; 2 - he chases his draw and lose a high percentage of times; 3 - he calls and shows his monster. You say nice hand and take notes, you'll probably play him again in this very same sit and go since you got him covered. Imo, neither are negative scenarios, as you kept alive.

I'd be more scared if he called in this dry board, if you ask me. Of course I'm never folding here, unless some big ace, king, 8 or 3, flush show up.
 
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bbiase

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In fact in this type of hand, depending on my notes on the opponent, if he is very loose agressive, I might shove even with AQ or AJ
 
IntenseHeat

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I have to agree that it's going to depend on the read you have on the villain. For me, against certain villains, more chips is going to signal more donk, meaning the more chips they throw at me, the faster I'm going to call, where I might actually fold to a more reasonably sized re-raise. The reasoning is that a player who shows a tendency towards gambling might shove with any pair or any big ace hoping for a fold, but willing to flip if called. But when that same wide open style player throttles back and makes a reasonable sized re-raise, it would signal to me that that player was holding a monster hand, like kings or aces and doesn't want to risk running me out of the hand.


Against your villain, I might not be willing to fold 10s or better. It might be hard to get a read on an opponent in just one hand. But in that one hand this villain has shown that he is willing to risk it all with any pair, even deuces. I wouldn't feel presumptuous in assuming that he would also be willing to flip with any decent sized Ace. More than that though, your villain's play demonstrates recklessness. Shoving with deuces is one thing, but calling another player's all-in with them is something entirely different. I wouldn't be surprised to see that type of player making a move with anything.
 
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Weisssound

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K Im the BB delt 10 10
- min raised from the highjack position
- I 3 bet 3x his raise

now i went on to win hand after dry flop with a c-bet... my question is do i fold if he comes back over the top of me? i had twice his stack an sitting 200 BB's in the SnG

In a SnG, I would usually fold. It's very rare that people 4-bet light, even in higher stakes. Out of position with 10s is going to be exceedingly difficult, and unlike a cash game you have a finite number of chips, so set mining isn't going to be profitable. Actually set mining here is rarely profitable in a cash game as well but certain opponents will put all their chips in with AA no matter what.

But yeah, this is a fold the majority of the time. If you have 200BB, just wait for a better spot.
 
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Weisssound

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Post flop is a different story. When someone flats a 3-bet it can mean a few different things.

A) They are trapping with AA/KK.
B) They want to see a flop with AQ/AK
C) They are set mining or playing a strong drawing hand and think you will pay them off if they hit.

How you negotiate the flop is going to be tough. JJ & TT are tough to play out of position because you don't really know where your opponent is at.

Even when you continue, you're not going to get much info. If your opponent flats you, you really have no more information than you had before. Because they could be peeling with AK, continuing to trap AA/KK, or connect with their weirdo draw. Which means to really know where you're at you'll most likely have to barrel twice.

If your opponent comes over the top, I think you gotta fold. It's only going to be a bluff if they think you are possibly continuing light and if they have outs if you call. So look at the table texture and be willing to let it go.

Remember, TT against JJ is no better than 22 against AA.
 
wildyetty

wildyetty

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Thank you Weiss your answer makes alot of seance to me an kind of follows my type of thinking. ( your thinking much deeper :D )
 
SloPowers

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it's situational and depends on many things, but depending on his reraise, I'm likely going to flat call to see the flop - I might call an all in depending on the player, etc.
 
westside1950

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I think that a lot of you guys need to understand that there is no universal answer to these kind of questions (no offense :) ) without telling us any reads or stats of your opponent.

If he is loose agresive you should definitly call and see the flop, if he's abc then folding is a top option since his range probably beats u and u are OOP... so give more details next time ;)
 
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Its all depend on your read,player stats,how many players involved,position and also what phase you are in if in a tournament.But usually if you up against a nit, theoretically its a fold.
 
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