When to fold pocket Kings preflop

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PokerFunKid

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Hey CCers, i am wondering what your oppinion is at folding pocket Kings preflop. It is hard to know when to fold to a 5-bet with pocket kings. I've folded pocket Kings a few times preflop, but this was in a tournament, close to a price, at the bubble for example and all prices equal. For example 11 people left, first 10 all get a price. you're in 5th position and someone with equal stack goes all in. I rather sit out and dont risk it with KK against a huge overbet.

Have you ever folded pocket Kings? Why and when do you decide to fold your Kings? Your opponent can have Queens, but also Aces. When you fold and see the Queens you'll feel stupid. When you fold and see he has Aces, you're a hero.
 
suby_rafael

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Yes i will fold pocket kings pre flop if someone puts a gun to my head and threatens to pull the trigger if i don't lay the hand down. I cannot think of any other situation really.:stupido2:
 
dmorris68

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I have rarely folded KK preflop in a regular tournament, and never in a cash game. In certain specialty situations, like DONs or satellites near the bubble, folding KK or even AA is sometimes a standard play, but typically not in a regular tourney situation. I might pause to give it a second thought in a regular tourney bubble scenario like you describe, but likely won't fold unless we're talking a ridiculous payout for min-cashing.

The odds of villain having AA is so small, the vast majority of time you're going to be crushing villains range. Only AA has you beat, against AK you're a 2:1 favorite, and against a smaller pair you're an 80% favorite. We like to think KK runs into AA a lot more often than it does, because it's so memorable, but the truth is it's very unlikely to happen (about 4% or 24:1 against).

So to fold pre you need a very very good read on the villain as being an uber-nit who never stands up to aggression and never shows down anything but premium hands. I've had occasion to be up against one of these, made the crying fold, and he showed AA to make me feel better. But I can count those times on (less than) one hand.
 
counts24

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How about switch

Let's talk Jacks pre flop if we want to have a real conversation.... Kings is not a real conversation because there isn't any reason to ever fold kings preflop. I can hear your voice trembling when you say, "what about when you're on the bubble?" It's the best way off the bubble!
 
trekmaster

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I might fold KK preflop in the situation you describe with all the prizes being the same and at the bubble. I have folded them when at a table with a bunch of morons having a pissing contest and there are four or more allins ahead of me. Other than that I'm not letting them go.
 
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The simple answer is never, we're behind one combination and crushing multiple.
 
natsgrampy

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I fold pocket K's every time on Bovada! No matter what the other guy has, I get beat!!!!!

No, really only time is in a DON or certain bubble situations
 
rifflemao

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Hey CCers, i am wondering what your oppinion is at folding pocket Kings preflop. It is hard to know when to fold to a 5-bet with pocket kings.

Ryan Riess folded KK to a 5-bet against a tight player when he won the wsop ME, and felt that it was a good play.

I wouldn't feel good about folding KK on the bubble, for the reason thatgreekdude stated, except there are six combinations of AA. Chance of villain having one of them is 0.45%. You're a strong favorite against a top 5% range there.
 
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Hypothetically speaking...in a spot where say you was on the final table, they're 8 players remaining 6 of them have all have around 2k & you and and another player have 16k (blinds 500-1,000) and the only player who can bust you (16k stack) jams into you. You have to at least consider folding KK for icm reasons?
 
suby_rafael

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Hypothetically speaking...in a spot where say you was on the final table, they're 8 players remaining 6 of them have all have around 2k & you and and another player have 16k (blinds 500-1,000) and the only player who can bust you (16k stack) jams into you. You have to at least consider folding KK for icm reasons?

I don't agree with this and think it is lunatic to do such a thing.:shot:
 
rytciaq

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I don't agree with this and think it is lunatic to do such a thing.:shot:
I don't also, but the past 3 CC freerolls i was participating in, it was about 15 players left, i was second in chips. The chip leader jams into me while having a vpip and pfr around 35, i wake up with Kings, i call ,get beat. Stuff happens, but yeah, I think that doing that play is a little bit lunatic.
 
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me personally, if the money between 8th and 2nd was significant, which it often is. I would consider folding here and walk into the good money! Maybe i'm just a nit ;) Of course, if all you care about is the win & not the pay jumps, this would seem bizarre. Everyone to their own I suppose!
 
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I can remember that I folded once Kings pf. It was pokerstars weekly final (late stage) and I was in MP with KK, one player before me raised, I reraised, than another player from MP 4bet, one in late position 5bet,the first shoved, I folded and the rest continue put their chips in the middle. One of them had Aces, one Queens and I was happy because I folded them. In the end it was a good decision, and resulted in me finishing second on that tourney.

Best way to detect AA is continuing 5 bet ( with small reraise, not shoving) from a nit. Because if they had QQ JJ, AK or KK also (which is very unlikely) they would have called your raise or just shoved on 3bet or 4bet.

Just be sure that u have enough napkins near you if your opponent doesnt want to show.
 
VizziVizo

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I fold pocket Kings when 5-7 men on preflop push all in.Or if several people raise on the fop and flop is AA7 or other.There are a lot of other bords when you have to fold but for the 90 % cases better to play kings.
 
tenbob

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PokerFunKid

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@dmorris68: I think in a 'normal' money tournament where price 1 is way more then price 10, you shouldn't fold pocket kings on the bubble. In such tournaments you want to end in the top 3, and if you can 'walk away' with the glory. At the bubble people are playing tight, so it is also a nice way to steal blinds. Not even a all-in a small raise may already be enough.

@Vizzivizo: Yes exactly, if for example 4 people go all in, your Kings may be the best hand, but they may only have under 30% chance to win. It depends at the phase of the tournament what i would do.

@Lekoo: Yeah, a book about poker i've read said:''5-bet means aces, fold your kings''. May be true in some situations, but wouldn't most players, especialy at micro/normal tournaments make the same play with queens? Especialy at the final table? Folding kings to to queens - ouch.

@rytciaq
You may have lost the hand, but that doesn't mean you didn't play it well.
 
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hffjd2000

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There are many instances where I can fold KK.

Aside from near bubble, if the action before me is so heavy, I will let my kings go.
 
Kenzie 96

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me personally, if the money between 8th and 2nd was significant, which it often is. I would consider folding here and walk into the good money! Maybe i'm just a nit ;) Of course, if all you care about is the win & not the pay jumps, this would seem bizarre. Everyone to their own I suppose!






The problem with this reasoning is your assumption that laying down K's here enhances your chances of walking into the good money. Just what hands are you expecting to get down the road that you will deem playable, pocket Jokers? :confused:
 
joker131

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yer there is reason to fold kk, mainly at or near the bubble when u have the same amount of chips as the aggressor and other plays will get blinded out before the money spot
 
rifflemao

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I fold pocket Kings when 5-7 men on preflop push all in.Or if several people raise on the fop and flop is AA7 or other.There are a lot of other bords when you have to fold but for the 90 % cases better to play kings.

I would never fold KK getting 5:1 or 7:1 aipf, especially in a freeroll. I would also never fold 22, or lots of suited connectors.
 
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Pre flop is really difficult fold KK, i think i wont make it.
 
hzrd123

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easy fold at bubble. no other option.
 
PokerFunKid

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The problem with this reasoning is your assumption that laying down K's here enhances your chances of walking into the good money. Just what hands are you expecting to get down the road that you will deem playable, pocket Jokers? :confused:

Haha, good one. Exactly. If you want to jump to a higher stack, you really should go for it and try to double up with your kings. There is only one better hand. Aces. Oh wait, jokers also ;)

Lol imagine: You have pocket aces, all in preflop and someone shows jokers!
 
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I don't think there's a right or a wrong here. As I mentioned above, it all depends on the individuals financial situation and their goals for the tournament.
 
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