What's your view on going all in with AK ?

BentleyBoy

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As the title suggests, what is your view on going all in with AK? Does it matter to you if it's suited or not?

Here's a couple of examples.

Early in tourney, you have 3000 chips and the blinds are 50/25. You are first to play and hold AKs. You raise 150. The next Three players fold and the fourth player raises all in, with 3000. Everyone else folds. What's your play?

Somewhat later on in the tourney, but still nowhere near the bubble, you have 30,000 chips and the blinds are 2000/1000 and the antes are 100. You are mid stacked on your table. Again you are first to play and raise to 5000 with AKs. Everyone else folds apart from the BB who raises all in with 35,000. What's your play?

I acknowledge there are other considerations such as relative playing styles of the players involved, their (and your) recent hand history and stuff such as your position relative to others in terms of chip stacks.

I've seen different outcomes to both of these scenarios and would appreciate your views on either or both.

Thanks

BB
 
edc1

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playing big slick can be very profitable,but it can get you in trouble fast if your unwilling to fold it post flop when you missed the flop and have someone betting in front of you-i have gone all-in with it but i dont make it a rule to follow-who im pushing allin against matters as well as chip stacks and position-its a top hand and should be played like one,as long as it hits or a dry flop comes -im totaly capable of flatting with big slick and not raising when there are to many ppl in pot-its a great hand but you cant throw cuation to the wind when playing it-grisped poker on utoobe has a great vid on playing big slick check it out very informative
 
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Early in tourney, you have 3000 chips and the blinds are 50/25. You are first to play and hold AKs. You raise 150. The next Three players fold and the fourth player raises all in, with 3000. Everyone else folds. What's your play?

Easy fold for me unless I got AA/KK.

Somewhat later on in the tourney, but still nowhere near the bubble, you have 30,000 chips and the blinds are 2000/1000 and the antes are 100. You are mid stacked on your table. Again you are first to play and raise to 5000 with AKs. Everyone else folds apart from the BB who raises all in with 35,000. What's your play?

Tough spot actually considering the ICM,but with only 15 bb left,I usually prefer a shove rather than a raise.
 
Stevan

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To be honest in the early stage of tournament guy is going all in with J&T or something.. but still, i don't like going in with AK so much.
In 85% of cases that i called with AK or AQ i was right but got outfloped.
 
darkelf1

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Early in tourney, you have 3000 chips and the blinds are 50/25. You are first to play and hold AKs. You raise 150. The next Three players fold and the fourth player raises all in, with 3000. Everyone else folds. What's your play?

Somewhat later on in the tourney, but still nowhere near the bubble, you have 30,000 chips and the blinds are 2000/1000 and the antes are 100. You are mid stacked on your table. Again you are first to play and raise to 5000 with AKs. Everyone else folds apart from the BB who raises all in with 35,000. What's your play?
BB

1. if it is first hand - all in , dont even bet 150 :D , so many times i had this, first hand AK big slick and first to act, if its 10$~ buy-in , shove all in . 2 from 3 times i get called with KQ :D , but its not the case , so i think i would call all in , hoping he has 66's to QQ (worst hand for big slick , ''but what doesntkill you makes u stronger'') , and my hand is a killer hand too for pairs , on top of that all other players didint called 150 bet. so might be no aces in players hands, ofc if its AA bad news , my investment in highest cards - big slick , f*ck*d :(
2.i say - Call double or nothing - investment to reach bubble easy (ofcourse depends on players playing style,and other,if he folded 10 hands and when he shoves on BB on my 2.5x bet under the gun , when i fold )
3.I actually need more opinions of other players , cuz it is common thing in poker. :cool:
 
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Situation 1 I would probably fold, anyone shoving 30+bb is representing a big hand, the second situation I would probably call but not be to excited about it. People play alil different on the bubble and someone shoving that much could be making a move to steal blinds
 
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tough on the guts

Fold early stages and by half way you should play according to the player if you don't know don't play
 
Ivab

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It depends on many factors. Such as the position of the table, the style of the game rivals what style I showed up to this distribution, the tournament stage, the size of the stack, the pot size and so on.
In the first situation, I would have folded. Unless of course this is not a tournament at a high rate of growth of the blinds.
In the second situation, I would put all in 90% of cases. If your opponent to the hand en showed a very tight game.
 
EvertonGirl

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The only time I shove pre with AK is when I am SS or if I'm the SB and BB is the SS and I have them well covered.

If I am playing a freeroll and a guy shoved my OR I would call as a lot of times they are doing this with any chit. In a normal tournament early I would fold as it isn't worth flipping that early on. I have made a ton of mistakes with AK even soooted when I had something like 60+ and calling all-ins and being against AA, KK, QQ, JJ or any PP. They are ahead before we even see the flop and if we don't hit... We are busted. AK can make us be a bit spewy just because it looks attractive, but it isn't actually a hand, it's just a draw hand.
 
lcid86

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Early in a tournament, rarely. Late in a tourney, it plays a lot better.
 
MattRyder

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I'm calling in both cases.

Early in a tourney, people push with all kinds of hands. More often than not it's going to be a pair (other than AA or KK) which means a coin flip, which I don't mind doing if I don't have a lot of time already invested in the game. The other likely hand they have (if not AA or KK) would be AQs or possibly AJs, in which case I'm ahead.

In the second example, I've already got 1/5th of my remaining stack invested and since were still far from the bubble, I'm not going to fold and just throw that money away. I'd rather go down (or double up) in a blaze of glory, rather than end up short-stacked AND with a "wimp" reputation. This is especially true if the only other player, and the one who does the pushing, is the BB. That's just way too suspicious a move. You could say that it was a mistake for me not to push in the first place, but if I had, then I'd only be getting called by better. This way, I let the other guy bluff and we let the cards fall where they may.

Suitedness doesn't make a lot of difference in my decision, although obviously I'd rather that the AK be suited.
 
-Phil Ivey27

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I actually call in both spots usually. I find that I'm rarely badly behind, which means he has to have AA or KK and you have blockers.

Either way in the first situation I'm not sure if it's the most sound strategy, considering that he needs to have AQ/AJ/KQ to really have him crushed. Poker is all about equity and putting yourself in a 45% situation with AK against most likely a pocket pair doesn't sound like the most equitable spot.

When you re-shove AK that is an entirely different story, as your fold equity makes it a profitable re-shove; but calling off with it I'm just not sure.

I will tell you one thing though, the second situation is much different than the first. If you're raising to 5k in 1k/2k blinds and folding to reshoves with AKs with 25k behind, that is just bad. At that point there is enough in the pot and you also only have 15 big blinds (now 12.5bb after making the raise), so you can't be to picky about picking a spot. I snap call here and often enough see hands I dominate.
 
Sum420gt

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I'd say it comes down to your opponents and your position at the table... If you have opponents who think going all in on A6 is a good strategy than definitely go for it
 
BentleyBoy

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Some great observations and options....many different, which makes this even more interesting. Keep the comments coming it's really helpful.
 
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ph_il

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As the title suggests, what is your view on going all in with AK? Does it matter to you if it's suited or not?
...With AK, I'm getting my money in more often than not. It doesn't matter if it's suited or unsuited.

There has to be a really good reason for me to even consider folding AK preflop.


Early in tourney, you have 3000 chips and the blinds are 50/25. You are first to play and hold AKs. You raise 150. The next Three players fold and the fourth player raises all in, with 3000. Everyone else folds. What's your play?
...Very easy call here. If it's a re-buy or re-entry, it's an even easier call.

This is almost never AA. Not impossible to have AA here, but no one is jamming AA for 60 BBs because there is no value in it. KK maybe, but AK still has 30% equity vs KK. Not to mention that we block some AA/KK combination. So, most of the time it's either a smaller pair that we flip against, a weaker hand like AQ, KQs, etc that we dominate, more maybe a hand like 910s, J10s, and we're in a 60/40.

All situations I'm happy to get my money in with AK.


Somewhat later on in the tourney, but still nowhere near the bubble, you have 30,000 chips and the blinds are 2000/1000 and the antes are 100. You are mid stacked on your table. Again you are first to play and raise to 5000 with AKs. Everyone else folds apart from the BB who raises all in with 35,000. What's your play?
...With 15 BBs, I'm definitely just not open raising unless I think an LP player is going to come over the top of me. It's an easy shove with AK on 15 BBs.

As played, this is an easy snap call.


I acknowledge there are other considerations such as relative playing styles of the players involved, their (and your) recent hand history and stuff such as your position relative to others in terms of chip stacks.
...True, but the beauty with AK is that you're never really in a horrible situation. Like mentioned already, you're only way behind AA and, since you hold an A, there are only 3 AA combinations left. Vs other hands you still have tons of equity:

-30% vs KK
-50% vs 22-QQ
-70% vs KX/AX
-60% vs 67s, 45o, any non-paired hands w/o an A or K.


I've seen different outcomes to both of these scenarios and would appreciate your views on either or both.
...Well, the only outcomes are they either win/lose the hand, but the results don't really matter. Getting your money in with AK is a very +EV play in the long run.

Thanks

BB
above
 
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ph_il

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Either way in the first situation I'm not sure if it's the most sound strategy, considering that he needs to have AQ/AJ/KQ to really have him crushed. Poker is all about equity and putting yourself in a 45% situation with AK against most likely a pocket pair doesn't sound like the most equitable spot.
You're not putting AK vs a specific hand your opponent is shoving, but a range they could be shoving. You're only slightly behind at 43% equity if your opponent is only jamming 22-AA and nothing else.

If we increase their range to 22-AA, 78s-AKs, AJo+, AJs+, KJs+, KJo+, J10o.

You're at 56% equity preflop for AKo, 58% for AKs.

Even if we tighten your opponents range a bit to: 22-AA, A10s+, AQo+, KQo, KQs, QJs, 10Js, you still have 51% equity preflop.

So, yes. It is a profitable call.
 
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Personally if he small bets early I would just fold. Even more if he has a deeper stack than me which would generally mean that I'm out of the tourney. All in's are a very high risk and high reward in most cases. Which are very dangerous when you have smaller stack than the opponent.
 
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it depends.. i will go all in if i have less then 12bb other wise i will raise.. call an all from loose player and maniac..
 
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1. fold,unless is a turbo tourney and you need to get chips early. note that AK is more dangerous against fish players.

2. hmm, when i try to steal blinds, i consider better to raise 2x. thight players will fold any bad hand no matter how you raise. in this case i could pay only if the aggresor (not sure if i english is good) is a TAG player because those players use to attack whit hands like AQ, AJ, AT, KQ.
 
jaymfc

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I don't like getting it AI early in the tourney or with more than 25 bb later.
I'm just tight though and it doesn't seem worth the risk. I usually believe I have the best hand but doesn't mean fish won't suck out with any two cards .
it's always a flip in my mind with only a slight advantage so I will fold it in many cases . but sometimes you just have to risk it, like it or not. jmo

today , knew it was not worth the risk at this stage but villian pushed at least
6 times out of a total of ten hands played so far in game. can't fold your good hands when you are sure you're ahead even of this can happen :(

17ScreenHunter  May 14 1104
 
-Phil Ivey27

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You're not putting AK vs a specific hand your opponent is shoving, but a range they could be shoving. You're only slightly behind at 43% equity if your opponent is only jamming 22-AA and nothing else.

If we increase their range to 22-AA, 78s-AKs, AJo+, AJs+, KJs+, KJo+, J10o.

You're at 56% equity preflop for AKo, 58% for AKs.

Even if we tighten your opponents range a bit to: 22-AA, A10s+, AQo+, KQo, KQs, QJs, 10Js, you still have 51% equity preflop.

So, yes. It is a profitable call.

I agree with your point although who is really shoving J10s pre-flop that early in a tournament?

I admit that I have found players with the silliest of hands in this spot, and considering this is online poker and you will run into some nuts that makes calling with AK a pretty standard play. Most players who know how to play don't make these random shoves, even though I am agreeing that some do.

My question is would you do it in a $50 or $100 online tournament? If the field is considerably better? A player who you know is a reg? Or are you making the call all the time here?
 
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ph_il

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I agree with your point although who is really shoving J10s pre-flop that early in a tournament?
...LOL. I've seen much worse than J10s shoving.

I admit that I have found players with the silliest of hands in this spot, and considering this is online poker and you will run into some nuts that makes calling with AK a pretty standard play. Most players who know how to play don't make these random shoves, even though I am agreeing that some do.
...Yeah, you might not see some of the better players open shoving with J10s or KQs, but you can always play back aggressively with AK and often get these players to stack off with weaker hands.

Say it's 20 BBs deep effectively and someone opens with AQs from MP for 3 BBs. You can just shove with AK and AQ is very likely calling here given stack sizes. So, while they might not shove first, you can get a lot of players to pay you off with much weaker hands. Especially in the micros. It's ridiculous the type of hands someone will raise/snap call a shove with.


My question is would you do it in a $50 or $100 online tournament? If the field is considerably better? A player who you know is a reg? Or are you making the call all the time here?
...I wouldn't know exactly because I don't play those levels. Plus those players will have a much better understanding of how you play. So, depending on how you play, you might not get players to stack off as easily with hands, depending on stack sizes and your image.

However, this isn't saying that I wouldn't make these types of plays with AK. Assuming that I have the proper BR to play $50-$100 MTTs, there should be no problem making these plays if I believe I'm getting my money in a +EV situation.
above.
 
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