What would be a realistic strategy to cash in WSOP?

teepack

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I looked back at last year's results. There were 6,352 entrants. At the end of the three "opening days" there were 4,186 players. At the end of the two "second days" there were 1,753 players. It would seem to me that if you could double up on each of the first two days (to 60,000 chips after Day 1 and 120,000 chips after Day 2), you would be in good shape. There were 666 players left after 3 days (with 648 players cashing). So again, another double up on Day 3 would put you up to around 240,000 chips and would give you a good shot at getting in the money.
 
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aznman08

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you need to keep in mind that in the wsop ME, levels are 2 hours long. Pretty much this allows you to play it like a cash game on day 1. I wouldn't worry too much about doubling up early on (antes start at level 4)
 
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strategy would be too play my A game and run like god lol
 
Debi

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I wouldn't enter any tournament with a strategy like that. You are going to lose sight of the game being stuck on just trying to cash and make some huge mistakes.

It is okay to have cashing as a mini goal but it should never be your primary goal. It is not a good plan to pay a tournament entry fee with a goal of just min-cashing. There is no point in entering it if that is your goal - long term you will be a losing tournament player.

You can't plan these double-ups in advance. :)
 
KingCurtis

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I wouldn't enter any tournament with a strategy like that. You are going to lose sight of the game being stuck on just trying to cash and make some huge mistakes.

It is okay to have cashing as a mini goal but it should never be your primary goal. It is not a good plan to pay a tournament entry fee with a goal of just min-cashing. There is no point in entering it if that is your goal - long term you will be a losing tournament player.

You can't plan these double-ups in advance. :)

+1
 
Jblocher1

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WSOPME= double or nothing MTT obv
 
Arjonius

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I wouldn't enter any tournament with a strategy like that. You are going to lose sight of the game being stuck on just trying to cash and make some huge mistakes.

It is okay to have cashing as a mini goal but it should never be your primary goal. It is not a good plan to pay a tournament entry fee with a goal of just min-cashing. There is no point in entering it if that is your goal - long term you will be a losing tournament player.
While I agree with what you said, I think there's the matter of context to consider. For many players, myself included, min-cashing in the ME would be far and away our biggest poker achievement.

So for me, if I ever play the ME, it will definitely be a bigger mini-goal than it is in my usual MTTs.
 
Jblocher1

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Realistic strategy? Play good poker LOL
 
teepack

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I'm not saying my goal is simply to min cash. But for a huge tourney like that, I would want some benchmarks for myself for each day. That tourney is a week-long deal just to get to the final table, so I don't think I would take a bunch of risks on the first three days just to try to build up some huge chip stack. Just making a min cash in the WSOPME would be my biggest payday ever.
 
Jacki Burkhart

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my coach has played 6 or 7 times and cashed 4 of them. He says you have all the time in the world to just sit back, learn your table and slowly chip up.

Each year plenty of players nit up near the bubble and min cash with stacks in the 40,000-80,000 range. I'm not saying that's where I'd want to be...but if folding 50 hands or so could make me $20,000 I might consider it.

And because the structure is so great, usually the average stack is something like 60bbs at the bubble and even a short stack will still have 5-15bbs; which is by no means comfortable but you're not desperate short.

what I'm trying to say is that doubling on each day would be ideal, for sure but not completely necessary. If you doubled each day you'd be just under and average stack at bubble time; and because of more nitty short stacks hanging on than at a normal tournament; you'd be about at a median stack.

IMO, playing large MTTs being right around average stack for the whole tourney is a fine strategy and fine outcome. But I've won a lot of tourneys flying at less than average stack until the final table.
 
Debi

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While I agree with what you said, I think there's the matter of context to consider. For many players, myself included, min-cashing in the ME would be far and away our biggest poker achievement.

So for me, if I ever play the ME, it will definitely be a bigger mini-goal than it is in my usual MTTs.

I'm not saying my goal is simply to min cash. But for a huge tourney like that, I would want some benchmarks for myself for each day. That tourney is a week-long deal just to get to the final table, so I don't think I would take a bunch of risks on the first three days just to try to build up some huge chip stack. Just making a min cash in the WSOPME would be my biggest payday ever.

my coach has played 6 or 7 times and cashed 4 of them. He says you have all the time in the world to just sit back, learn your table and slowly chip up.

Each year plenty of players nit up near the bubble and min cash with stacks in the 40,000-80,000 range. I'm not saying that's where I'd want to be...but if folding 50 hands or so could make me $20,000 I might consider it.

And because the structure is so great, usually the average stack is something like 60bbs at the bubble and even a short stack will still have 5-15bbs; which is by no means comfortable but you're not desperate short.

what I'm trying to say is that doubling on each day would be ideal, for sure but not completely necessary. If you doubled each day you'd be just under and average stack at bubble time; and because of more nitty short stacks hanging on than at a normal tournament; you'd be about at a median stack.

IMO, playing large MTTs being right around average stack for the whole tourney is a fine strategy and fine outcome. But I've won a lot of tourneys flying at less than average stack until the final table.

If you satellited in or someone paid most or all of your entry fee then I could see some justification in putting a lot of value in just a min cash. (Not saying I still wouldn't be aiming much higher).

But if you pay $10k to play in a tournament and a min cash is that meaningful to you then in my opinion you are playing way over your head and should have used that $10k to play in multiple smaller tournaments. (Assuming you are not rich and money is no object).

Like me - I could play in the main event if I wanted to - but $10k is way too much money for me to invest in a single tournament. That much money covers my entire summer package which includes 2 WSOP events - and my Nov package as well.

You wouldn't find me in a situation where I would play the main event focusing in the early stages on min-cashing.

But everyone is different. :)
 
Carl Trooper

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I would recommend NOT getting your chips in with TPTK or something mediocre the first day. The structure is to good to be calling all your chips with AK on a A72 board.

Grind it out, and chip up slowly!

And like others said, you shouldn't be trying to mincash, unless like dakota said, you satellite in and now a 35$ investment can turn out to be 20k.
 
rifflemao

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I'm not saying my goal is simply to min cash. But for a huge tourney like that, I would want some benchmarks for myself for each day. That tourney is a week-long deal just to get to the final table, so I don't think I would take a bunch of risks on the first three days just to try to build up some huge chip stack. Just making a min cash in the WSOPME would be my biggest payday ever.

A potential problem with setting those benchmarks is you might have a tendency to chase them, which could inject some tilt into your game. They are not a strategy, but they could potentially impact your actual strategy of playing good poker.

Probably best to stick with monitoring your M and aggression down in the weeds, although you want to avoid tilting about those benchmarks too. I tend to tilt and overplay if I get down between 10-15 BBs, for example, and getting there tends to suggest I've made some -EV plays prior to that.
 
teepack

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A potential problem with setting those benchmarks is you might have a tendency to chase them, which could inject some tilt into your game. They are not a strategy, but they could potentially impact your actual strategy of playing good poker.

Probably best to stick with monitoring your M and aggression down in the weeds, although you want to avoid tilting about those benchmarks too. I tend to tilt and overplay if I get down between 10-15 BBs, for example, and getting there tends to suggest I've made some -EV plays prior to that.

That's a good point. I've only played four live tourneys (But thousands of on-line MTTs). The benchmark I usually keep is trying to stay with the chip average for the first two hours (assuming a non-turbo tourney) and then, after that, trying to stay within 50 percent of chip average (figuring one double-up gets me right back to the average). The one live tourney I won (six-way chop), I joined late and was below the average all the way until the bubble burst. The top 15 got paid, and I was 14th when the bubble burst. When we broke for the final table, I was third in chips, and when we decided to chop, I was second.

I believe in setting realistic goals and then adjusting on the fly as you achieve them. Any tourney I enter, my goal is to cash. Once I get into the money, then I set a goal of making it to the final table. Once I do that, then I set the goal of making the top 4-5 (which is where the big prizes are). After I achieve that, then my goal is to win it.
 
babydrago9

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Just adjust to the players on your table and focus on accumulation instead of just having a goal to double up. After a good hour on your table you should have a good idea on whos playing what style and so just adjust accordingly; unless you get unlucky then you should do well if you pick your spots well. Only think about cashing on day three imo, you don't want to have a goal which makes you make plays to tightly or even to loosely before day three to cash, just make the best decisions relating to your spots
 
Jacki Burkhart

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Just adjust to the players on your table and focus on accumulation instead of just having a goal to double up. After a good hour on your table you should have a good idea on whos playing what style and so just adjust accordingly; unless you get unlucky then you should do well if you pick your spots well. Only think about cashing on day three imo, you don't want to have a goal which makes you make plays to tightly or even to loosely before day three to cash, just make the best decisions relating to your spots

yes. this is about right.

basically you cannot win, or even cash this tourney in 1, 2 or 3 days. So don't focus too much on goals for those first couple of days.

If you sort through the data for the last several years when there were huge fields, I believe you'll find that RARELY do the chip leaders on day 1 or 2 make it to the final table; in fact frequently they do not even cash. This is simply NOT a tournament where playing well for a while or running good on a day or 2 is enough. that is why it is the world championship. The goal, above all else is just to survive with a relevant stack. aim to bag and tag at the end of each day with the biggest stack that you can manage that is still a decent stack. You don't have to be a chip leader. you don't even have to be an average stack. you just have to be in the hunt. Look at Greg Merson, 2012 for inspiration. It could have been quite easy for him to get discouraged and punt his stack when he got crippled. But he didn't. This tourney gives you time; which is a gift if you are a good player.

Sometimes when I hear players say "Don't play to cash. play to win!" I wonder if those players are just repeating what they've heard elsewhere, or if they've really ever succeeded at multi-day events with that approach? I'm not saying it cannot be done...I'm sure that attitude has bred plenty of winners....and losers.... but my logic is: why focus your energy on your state's legal bar exam, when you haven't even graduated high school yet? One step at a time....yes keep the end goal in sight, but presumably, NOBODY enters the main event unless they are prepared to try and win it when the opportunity presents itself. But I think a 'balls out" or "go big or go home" approach is a serious mis-step in a tourney that is as deepstacked and slow as this one. For turbos, YES! for typical tourneys....possibly....but for the main event? I don't know....I've never played it... It's just my speculation
 
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Best way to do it is to wait for the correct spots to play premium hands, the smart players don't risk their chips early on in the tournament unless they are sure that they have the best hand at least after the flop,
 
Jacki Burkhart

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...But if you pay $10k to play in a tournament and a min cash is that meaningful to you then in my opinion you are playing way over your head and should have used that $10k to play in multiple smaller tournaments. (Assuming you are not rich and money is no object).

Like me - I could play in the main event if I wanted to - but $10k is way too much money for me to invest in a single tournament. That much money covers my entire summer package which includes 2 WSOP events - and my Nov package as well....

i'm right with you on this, Dakota. While I think I could play and do just fine, and I could technically afford to play the main event...you won't find me there any time soon.

I'd much rather play several smaller events. I spend that much or less in a year on buy-ins and have many more opporutnities to re-coup the investment.

THIS year marks the first year that I will attempt to satellite into the ME, but If I do happen to win my seat, I will most likely just sell my lammers to my coach and take a cut of his action.
 
Arjonius

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Sometimes when I hear players say "Don't play to cash. play to win!" I wonder if those players are just repeating what they've heard elsewhere, or if they've really ever succeeded at multi-day events with that approach? I'm not saying it cannot be done...I'm sure that attitude has bred plenty of winners....and losers.... but my logic is: why focus your energy on your state's legal bar exam, when you haven't even graduated high school yet? One step at a time....yes keep the end goal in sight, but presumably, NOBODY enters the main event unless they are prepared to try and win it when the opportunity presents itself. But I think a 'balls out" or "go big or go home" approach is a serious mis-step in a tourney that is as deepstacked and slow as this one. For turbos, YES! for typical tourneys....possibly....but for the main event? I don't know....I've never played it... It's just my speculation
My take on playing to win is that it's much more applicable in tournaments at your usual buyin levels than in those you play rarely or in one that might be one-time only.

How much the min-cash amount is matters too. In the case of the ME, $20k is a meaningful amount within the context of my RL finances. Also, the only way I'd be playing is if I satellited in. So subjectively, it's a very different situation for me compared to the tournaments I'm used to where the min-cash amount is pocket money.
 
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Dr. William Glasser proposed a theory according to which a person has four basic needs: property, power, freedom and fun. Although poker, in a sense, falls under all four, I would like to focus on the pleasure.

No matter it's your first trip or the fortieth, try to enjoy the process. Enjoy the experience. Poker - the only kind of activity in which anyone with enough money can play with superstars. Rate this fact, make it your goal. Enjoy the process - one of the prerequisites for successful learning and WSOP gives you the opportunity for this luxury.
 
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t's likely you will not just find yourself in situations where your hair literally stand on end. Regardless of which test will fall to your lot - bad beat or a difficult decision for most of the stack - you should be able to control their own emotions.

One of the foundations of managing your emotional state is proper breathing. In situations when the adrenaline is thrown into the blood, the human body is programmed for an appropriate response. Breathing becomes shallow, the heart rate increases, and the prefrontal cortex (responsible for decision-making and self-control) is disabled.

To stop all these processes and return to duty, practice slow, deep, so-called 15-second breath deep, shestisekundny breath, then a two-second delay of breath and then exhale semisekundny. Breathing exercises to be most effective, carefully counting the seconds at each step. It is possible that you will have to repeat the process several times to completely clear conscience. Sounds simple, but it works.
 
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Always nice to have with a few quotes to uplift the spirit (phone, tablet, even on a card in your wallet) when things do not add up in the best way. Can use any statements that suit your taste. Here are a few quotes that inspire me:

"Going through hell, do not stop." ~ Winston Churchill
"Do not let the fact that you can not do interfere with what you can." ~ John Wooden
"Much seems impossible until it is not done yet." ~ Nelson Mandela
You can also create a list of reminders for important things on which to concentrate, and refer to it periodically. For example, to play every hand regardless of the outcome of previous not play marginal hands out of position, and so on.
 
JustDestined

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It's hard to say exactly. If you had a chance to play in the Superbowl next year what would you do? I guess try to play good solid poker and keep chip stack risk to a minimum. At the same time if the opportunity arose to say.. try making a move on Helmuth or Ivey it would be very hard to not try if I thought I had a good shot at getting the best of it.
 
arahel_jazz

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I'm not saying my goal is simply to min cash. But for a huge tourney like that, I would want some benchmarks for myself for each day. That tourney is a week-long deal just to get to the final table, so I don't think I would take a bunch of risks on the first three days just to try to build up some huge chip stack. Just making a min cash in the WSOPME would be my biggest payday ever.

I like Bernard Lee's strategy - make it through the level with more chips than you started it with. Focus. The opportunities for big pots will come.
 
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