what should you do?

N

Nylan

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Hello,
what should you do if you play your 'dream' tournament (high buy in obv.)
and the first round you get a KK,
he is in early position and you in BB
and a guy is all in,

CALL or fold?
 
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JusSumguy

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Need more info, but no matter... it's a call.

-
 
BluffMeAllIn

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Yeah, an obvious call (especially against just one player). Regardless of the tournament dream or not you are in it for the same reason, to win. So why would you ever think of laying down a hand that you are know preflop at least you are currently best.

Certainly not a situation you want to get sucked out in, but you don't fold the best hand pre because you are afraid of being sucked out on. Statistically speaking you will win with it, especially heads-up, more than you will lose (a lot more when heads-up, multiway is a whole other monster and would have other considerations).
 
Skull_Sniper

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I know it's a scary situation, but you have to call for sure. He probably has AK or KK or maybe even AA, but you know you're ahead preflop no matter what. As long as the board holds you'll be good to go.
 
JusSumguy

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Prolly still a call. A crying call for sure.

Thing is, folks who push first hand are usually inexperienced children.

-
 
dgiharris

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Is this a serious question???

Why on Earth would you ever fold???

Fish think only in terms of results oriented poker, winning and losing. Whenever they make a play that results in a "win" then it was the correct play and whenever they make a play that results in a "loss" then it is incorrect.

Long term winning players think in terms of Positive Expectation or Positive expected value. They judge the "correct" play not by whether they win or lose a specific hand, but rather by whatever produces the best longterm result.

AA is 80%+ to win over any other hand thus getting it all in preflop is always correct.

There are only 3 legitimate reasons to ever fold AA preflop in a tournament.

#1) You are playing in a satellite and are 100% sure to get a seat if you just fold and let the short stacks blind off

#2) You are near the bubble in a tournament in which the cash represents a significant portion of your bankroll-- i.e. you are a 2NL player who won a $1 satellite into the wsop Main Event. Your bankroll is $300 and cashing in the WSOP is $17k

#3) ICM considerations: You are at the final table and your chip stack is negligible relative to your peers (i.e. doubling up really doesn't help you all that much). 3 players go all-in and they each have about the same # of chips. No matter what 2 players will get knocked out and you will move up two spots in the money and the pay jump is substantial. i.e. 7th place pays $10k but 5th place pays $35k....


Those are literally the only reason to ever fold AA preflop in a tournament, reasons #1 and #2 are the most common reasons and reason #3 almost never happens...
 
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Nylan

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Need more info, but no matter... it's a call.

-

Is this a serious question???

Why on Earth would you ever fold???

Fish think only in terms of results oriented poker, winning and losing. Whenever they make a play that results in a "win" then it was the correct play and whenever they make a play that results in a "loss" then it is incorrect.

Long term winning players think in terms of Positive Expectation or Positive Expected Value. They judge the "correct" play not by whether they win or lose a specific hand, but rather by whatever produces the best longterm result.

AA is 80%+ to win over any other hand thus getting it all in preflop is always correct.

There are only 3 legitimate reasons to ever fold AA preflop in a tournament.

#1) You are playing in a satellite and are 100% sure to get a seat if you just fold and let the short stacks blind off

#2) You are near the bubble in a tournament in which the cash represents a significant portion of your bankroll-- i.e. you are a 2NL player who won a $1 satellite into the WSOP Main Event. Your bankroll is $300 and cashing in the WSOP is $17k

#3) ICM considerations: You are at the final table and your chip stack is negligible relative to your peers (i.e. doubling up really doesn't help you all that much). 3 players go all-in and they each have about the same # of chips. No matter what 2 players will get knocked out and you will move up two spots in the money and the pay jump is substantial. i.e. 7th place pays $10k but 5th place pays $35k....


Those are literally the only reason to ever fold AA preflop in a tournament, reasons #1 and #2 are the most common reasons and reason #3 almost never happens...

okay, but i meant whit KK ,
should you do the same?
 
MTCashman

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I don't think he would play Aces like that, so its a call!
 
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Call my friend and beg that this fish doesnt have. small suited conectors. hehe. GL
;)
 
dgiharris

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edit; I meant; KK instead of AA

Now this is an interesting question. Would a rec-fish ever open shove all-in in a big tournament with anything other than AA?

That is the real question.

Would a rec-fish ever spazz out and 3-bet shove with AK or QQ at the beginning of a tournament for 500bb???

This is one of the few times I will use my personal experience as a guide.

Out of all the big money big buy-in tournaments I have ever played, I have never ever ever seen anyone shove all-in preflop in the first round with anything other than AA/KK.

Every retarded all-in preflop shove I've ever seen in these big tournaments was someone spazzing out with AA and they got lucky that someone had KK and called them. And I've think I've seen it maybe just 2 or 3 times...

So yeah, I fold KK. And the reason I fold KK is because i've yet to see anyone get it all in preflop in a big tournament in the first or second round with anything other than AA.

Now, if we are talking your typical low buy-in donkament, then I would call with KK because rec-fish overplay AK all the time. But in $500+ buy-in big tournament, I'd fold KK in the first couple of rounds to an all-in preflop shove.

UNLESS, it looks like the all-in preflop shove is a squeeze play and the villain doing it is aggro or an ego maniac... but barring that read and just up against a random who I have no hand history with or reads on, I'd fold KK :(

I don't think he would play Aces like that, so its a call!

This is how thinking players level themselves all the time. So if he doesn't play Aces like that then what in the hell does he play like that? 44? TT? QQ? and if he would play those hands like that then why in the hell wouldn't he play AA like that?

And how do you know what a random would or would not do? You can't read randoms, that's like trying to read someone who is in the big blind.

Yesterday in my 2/5nl game I sit down and literally my first hand that I played I get AA on the BTN, 4 limpers to me, I raise to $30, 3 callers.
Flop($100) 2 4 7r
chks to me, I bet $50, V1 c/r to $150, everyone else folds I call

Turn($400) 2
he goes all in for $400, I call

River ($1000) Q
he shows JJ
I win with AA

he then says, "yeah, I put you on AK. I didn't think you had a big pair"

really? You've never played with me before, never seen me before but somehow you are able to soul read me for EXACTLY two cards. Amazing...

I would caution the same thing here. We have no idea how some random could/would play AA in a big tournament so we shouldn't be so quick to assume what they would and wouldn't do...
 
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My dream tournament would obviously be the WSOP main event and I would fold early on unless I had reason to believe the guy was a complete maniac.
 
psychotie

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For me its a easy call. Why should I fold ? To stay as long in the tournament as possible? I always want to come ITM and I wait for descent cards to play with. If this card arrives in the first hand of the tournament ok: lets play it and see what happens.
 
LeeCallaghan

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Hello,
what should you do if you play your 'dream' tournament (high buy in obv.)
and the first round you get a KK,
he is in early position and you in BB
and a guy is all in,

CALL or fold?
Doyle Brunson sais "The key to No- Limit is to put a man to a decision for all his chips"

1:15-2:50
KK, that is easy go for it!:D
 
dudemanstan

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I am insta calling with a big grin on my face, folding KK is not an option, and would hurt way more then loosing with them. There is always another game to play.
 
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progressiver123

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U can lose with
AA man ,. There is a time and a place for everything .
 
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