What percentage of live tournament players actually make money?

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paulyd

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10% of the field makes the money in these. It seems like unless you have some high cashes, it isn't possible to win at these. If this is true, why do ppl bother playing live MTT?
 
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samuraihuang

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because they play to win and not just min cash. usually live tournaments also play a little different than online tournaments and a lot have weaker fields.
 
Aleksei

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Live play in general is massively softer than OLP. In the average live tourney 10% of the players are ITM, but my guess is less than that are even past level 1 thinking.
 
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paulyd

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im talking about those who actually play the circuit and are serious...
 
sam1chips

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Payout field is definitely top-heavy. A min cash is usually a little bit more than twice the buy-in, but you can't expect to finish ITM 50% of the time.

In order to do that, you've gotta be able to have some final tables and victories
 
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RamdeeBen

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If you're a good MTT player, you will win long term.

MTT's have the worse poker players in them overall imo so it's quite easy to win long term if you're a winning good player.
 
left52side

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I play mostly live guarantee tournaments which are most often more than one day tournaments and are quite a grind to even qualify.
You more often than not have to make it through 12/14 blind levels and hope you are average or above average chip stack for final day.
The upside to this is that on final day most players are already itm.
I have two wpt cashes this year alone from guarantee tournaments.
 
OzExorcist

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Like anything else, if you're good enough at them then in the long term you can expect to pay.

Also keep in mind that most serious MTT players (live AND online) are aiming for the top spots to make their money. Mincashes come in handy from time to time but it's the big cashes that matter.

There's also external considerations once you get into the bigger buyin / televised tournaments, things like sponsorship opportunities etc. There's a lot less of that since the crash, but it's still a consideration.

And as others have said, live poker players (I say with with both love and experience - I learned to play live, and at the moment I'm primarily a live cash game player) are pretty damned bad so if you're good...
 
Bowman26

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People like to play MTT because they can get a lot of card playing entertainment for a minimal buy in of their choice. It is true that unless you make the final table at least you aren't going to be rolling in the winnings. I would say unless it is a really large payout tourney you need to be top 6 to be rewarded well enough for your original investment and time spent playing.

I played one the other night $2 NL Holdem and finished 37th out of 567 entries and it paid me $8.40 hardly what the 3 plus hours I spent locked to a computer was worth in my time. But I play them now and then for entertainment and if I win so much the better. I always play to win so I expect that I will be at the computer for several hours anytime I register for one. But then I might be freed up real quick after all :eek:

Years ago Paradise had a $1,000,000 tourney and the only way you could get a seat was to make the final table at one of their free rolls, you couldn't buy in even with a satellite. I won a seat beating over 3000 entries and then made it to the 2nd day of the Million Dollar Tourney and ended up out around 800th I think out of 5000 total players. But I would never have even got the shot had I not played MTT and knew how things went during them. They are a whole different game than ring cash games.

My best finish in a buy in MTT was 1st in a Omaha NL game I register for by mistake! It was a $2 buy in with close to 5000 people and paid me over a grand plus it was a blast! Turns out I am not to bad at Omaha :)

Oh and if you look at the prize payouts for the larger buy ins you can see what some people take a shot at it now and then. The 100k on Bovada paid 1st over 25K last one I saw. Not bad $$.
 
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Ambushed

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People who play live MTTs usually are playing for fun. The level is not very high, but the rake is very high most of the times.. But it's still profitable, due to the amount of recreational players.
 
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ph0n3_j4ck

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Depends on where you go to play live. If you can constantly cash in the top 10% while playing live, why wouldnt you?
 
hegaboy1125a

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I also believe that 10% of players are the best collectors in this system, for their perseverance and performance, also helps aggressiveness and resistance is what allows us to be victorious.
 
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AviCKter

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You want to be a real poker player, go LIVE.
Live games are the rockets of poker. It is challenging, not just because of length, but the focus and intensity is too high. If you lose, you cant go join another one. And yes, the pride, joy and fame comes heavy, its not just about the money afterall.
 
redwhitealex

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I would like to get into the 10% and make a hobby money. it would be nice to have a hobby that makes money and)))
 
Mechanic44

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its crazyness,everyone want to gain,not lose.but only few can make livin with it. Sometimes this feells soo wrong.,but f,it. i want to win too.
 
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indahood193

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if you are just referring to live mtt's then i do not have that much experience tbh, never played in one tournament haha. as for online if you play enough and get quite good you can deffoo make money. i usually try to play at least 1,000 tourny's a month, this volume means that as i am usually better than a lot of the players in these i will make a profit by the end of the month. however, the thing with tournaments is you can go for a bit losing money then out of nowhere you will get a big cash and be up. for example last week i played maybe 6/7 days, think i lost money every day until yesterday where i ended up taking 4th in a $2.20 rebuy out of 3,000 odd players for $1.5k and was up for the week. and now all those losing days don't matter. as long as you played fairly well and didn't donate money, got your chips in good etc on these losing days then that is all you can do really.
 
vinylspiros

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the dream dies last.
 
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indahood193

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think i kind of mis read the question actually. usually live players are weaker than online ones so if you are a good player in a soft field live there is no reason why you can't win the tournament. just because only 10%, i would usually say it's 15%, of players cash doesn't mean it isn't profitable to play. the fields are usually smaller and blinds lower when playing live so if you are a good player you should have an even greater chance of winning than some huge field mtt with rapid blinds. but the thing with live tourny's is you can play for hours and then not cash, online you can have 1-20 or even more table at once so getting ko'd out of one isn't a disaster but it is a bit of a waste of time if you one table live then don't make money ( bar the enjoyment of course.) on the other hand a benefit of one tabling live is you are able to simply focus on one table and make better decisions and player close to your A game. hope i helped haha :)
 
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largeslice

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I play live, luckily have two local casinos that run nightly tourneys. Buy in/players average £35/40. Play 3/4 nights a week, final table 75%, cash 50%. Blinds normally get silly towards end so normally 3/5 player left a deal is normally made. Can't make a living out of it (would be to much pressure!) but can't see why playing 4/5 nights a week a better than average player shouldn't clear 600-1000 a month
 
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Jacki Burkhart

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I'd say that it doesn't matter whether 10% of the field cashes or 30% of the field cashes....if you perform at a level that cashes higher than the field, you are in positive equity situation. If you also have the skills to run deep and maybe even win 1st or 2nd then your equity is even better.

I have a large enough sample size to know my stats are 18-22% cash rate for large MTTs. Since usually only 10% are paid, this means that I have roughly double the chance of cashing than the average entrant. still not a guarantee by any means, but clearly a positive expectation.

Now, I've heard it said a million times that tourney players "play for first" and this is true, But we don't look down on a min-cash...sure it didn't fulfill our main goal, but it is far from a failure. The way I look at a min cash is it pays for 2 more tries at getting first place.

But the main reason I play is honestly not for money. Tourney poker gives you so many different challenges and dynamics to work through, it is really everything that cash game decision making offers in terms of "entertainment" value except there are even more things to consider. In tourney it's a lot more than pot odds, implied odds and bankroll management. There is stack size management, various bubbles to exploit, death traps to avoid, energy levels and tilt to consider (you can't just walk away), rising blinds to steal all very exciting and complex equations to balance. At any given time you have to ask yourself "What is my main goal right now" and the answer will often be very different than it would be at a cash table with the same hand and same opponent.

Then you add to that the fact that bigger "paydays" await tourney players combined with a softer field than cash and I can't really even be tempted to play cash games unless it's all I can find that will "scratch the itch"
 
10058765

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There's the top-players who pretty often make deep runs so playing is EV+.
There's recreational players who have enough money to just buy-in and play for entertainment, maybe not cashing alot, but still having great fun, so EV+, maybe not moneywise but havingagoodtime-wise.
Then there's me.....I'm not a live player, cannot afford large buy-ins and actually play micro/low buyins online.
But.....my dream is once to play a big live event like an EPT or UKIPT because it would make me very rich.
Not moneywise (would be nice tho), but just being part of such an event, the thrill and entertainment playing there....well that would make it very EV+++ to me, no matter if I would get ITM or not.
 
Arjonius

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im talking about those who actually play the circuit and are serious...
You have to factor in various things. One is that the fields include plenty of non-circuit players, some (maybe quite a few) of whom satellited in and have less chance of placing than the average circuit player does. So, anyone who has enough ability to belong on the circuit is likely to have an above average EV.

Also, there's nothing that says circuit players have to buy in direct. Let's say someone plays 10 $10k MTTs and wins $80k. Did he lose $20k? Maybe, but if he got in them by spending $50k on satellites, he actually made $30k. That's before expenses, but if those satellites were online, the packages typically cover flight and hotel and even include some money for other expenses.
 
RCtheDabbler

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Quite a few players will make money consistently live as alot of live players are recreational and the good players use this to their advantage and consistently cash in tournaments.
 
Karozi615

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at the highest level the gold standard is a 20% cash rate.
prize pools are extremely progressive so a deep run can outshine 5-6 min cashes.
All of the players on the professional circuit have a % of each other so they are constantly cashing and balancing losses to lower variance
If a player actually won one of those high roller events without being staked at all it would be impressive, but its rare.
 
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kidnaping

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small percentage

i think between 10 an 20 %
 
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