What makes structures bad?

So I was procrastinating on a bunch of stuff today and played both freerolls (Carbon and Juicy) and surprisingly I found I liked one structure while hating the other..... so I was wondering what actually made people consider structures poor and good past just having more or less play??

Granted more or less play is important, but there are other factors imho...

Ill start-

Here are the Juicystakes levels for the FR:

Actual Proposed Cost of one round Rnd1/Rn2...
10/20 SAME 30 NA
15/30 SAME 45 same 1.50
25/50 SAME 75 same 1.66
50/100 (40/80) 120 (2.00)1.60
75/150 (60/120) 180 (1.50)1.50
100/200 (80/160/10) 280 (1.33)1.55
150/300/25 (115/230/15) 465 (2.17)1.66
200/400/40 (150/300/30) 690 (1.41)1.48
(200/400/40) 920 NA 1.33
Note: All levels are 12 mins.

The M value for the 6th level is 300 and then jumps to 675 in level 7.

So what im saying is the cost of a round should never expand 125% in one level jump. I mean the jump to antes usually isnt even accompanied by a blind raise...or at least often isnt.

Here I propose lengthening the structure by one lvl only and show how doing that and manipulating ante size a bit more can normalize the rise in antes a great deal.

I even think we could raise that last level to 240/480/40 to make the jump not even a level longer...in fact I think that would be argueably be smoother for the players...but of course all things being equal longer structures are fundamentally better until a point far beyond this structure...

R1/R2 shows the ratio of every round cost over the preceding one which illustrates the "smoothness" of ante/blind increases throughout the tournament. The parenthetical values are the ratios as they currently are , and the ones with no parentheses are what I would propose.

Thoughts?

Anyone think my structure sucks?

Anyone think it really doesnt matter and I have OCD for thinking about these things?

It's a freeroll. The faster the better imo. They should all be hyperturbos.

I don´t like structures, where the ante is a too high percentage of the blind(s), but hey, the conditions are equal for all players

WVHillbilly said:

It's a freeroll. The faster the better imo. They should all be hyperturbos.

Click to expand...

Well from a utility POV sure......but most of us want practice to for improvement...and to test our skills so...

But yeah, its a freeroll, so im not complaining merely discussing structures...

Daniel72 said:

I don´t like structures, where the ante is a too high percentage of the blind(s), but hey, the conditions are equal for all players

Click to expand...

Me too....I think (8/9 X ante)= ~ 1BB for a given level...just me.

What makes structures bad?

Click to expand...

When they too rapidly, or suddenly, take away decisions from players and leave them with only one choice. Good decision making is where much of the skill lies in poker. When everyone is suddenly forced into only one, there's no place for bad decisions or good decisions to capitalize on the bad ones.

I'm not fond of structures where all the stacks end up being very short toward the end so that (almost) everyone is in shove or fold mode when most of the money is on the line.

Arjonius said:

I'm not fond of structures where all the stacks end up being very short toward the end so that (almost) everyone is in shove or fold mode when most of the money is on the line.

Click to expand...

so would you be for structures actually slowing down in progression past a certain point...iunno, doesnt that sort of change what tournament poker is?

I mean push/fold is an integral part of donkament poker to be sure, no?

I agree it isnt good when everyone has like 20bb or under though....so yeah, I kinda half agree.

A2345Razz said:

so would you be for structures actually slowing down in progression past a certain point...iunno, doesnt that sort of change what tournament poker is?

I mean push/fold is an integral part of donkament poker to be sure, no?

I agree it isnt good when everyone has like 20bb or under though....so yeah, I kinda half agree.

Click to expand...

It's uncommon and I don't remember a specific example, but I have seen reports of live tournaments where the structure is adjusted for the final table or two in order to allow more play; i.e. the blinds and antes are set back to an earlier level.

I've also seen where some tournaments stop increasing the blinds at a very late stage.

They extend blind levels in the FTOPS events on Full Tilt. After 20 levels they go from 10 mins to 12 mins, then to 15 mins after 10 more levels and finally to 20 mins after 10 more levels. I like it. It's sick to go deep and basically rely on running good to get to the big payouts.

not enuf blinds on cake, too long late reg on acr

WVHillbilly said:

It's a freeroll. The faster the better imo. They should all be hyperturbos.

Click to expand...

I agree. Tho with somewhat normal starting stacks. Many hyper turbos start with super short stacks...not liking that part of it.

TeUnit said:

not enuf blinds on cake, too long late reg on acr

Click to expand...

Dont like larger prize pools, fields and a marginal edge on equity since the spewiest players bust earlier on avg. and impart their chips to the early birds.

Ok, but after an hour or 75 minutes it does get ridic for small buyin structures I suppose....

I more pissed about how CC donbkaments dont allow late buy ins pushing a bunch of people to reg and then burn up the first 5 mins of the donkament timing out....

A2345Razz said:

I more pissed about how CC donbkaments dont allow late buy ins pushing a bunch of people to reg and then burn up the first 5 mins of the donkament timing out....

Click to expand...

The reason for that is if we allowed late registration it becomes more likely for the password to get shared.

Here is a good article on t"patience Factor" There is evena spreadsheet on the net you can download so you input values in and tell you the patience factor of a tournament..
http://www.pokertournamentformula.com/online_poker_tournament_strategy_patience_factor.htm

I think the best structure depends on your playing style. My first thought is that if you are lagro and steal a lot, then you want to play in a tournament with an aggressively accelerating structure. If you are more nitty maybe you want a structure with more play.
I suppose you could make an antithetical argument that a lagro player would have more time to take down more small pots in a slower structure. While a faster structure could benefit a Tag style player by compelling them to make necessary moves that he/she would not otherwise make.

If you're a good player you should want a structure that enables you to play.
If you're not then Hyper Turbo shove and fold bingo gives you more chance of winning something.

Heck, I'm easy. But Turbo and Super Turbos really don't fit my playing style,,,squeak,squeak need WD40 here. LOL ,,, To be truthful I haven't seen much of "Donkfest" betting in the few tournaments I've played since being back. Take care