what do you consider a short shove/fold stack to be?

Amanda A

Amanda A

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What's a short shove/fold stack for you? 8BB, 10BB, 12BB? Can you still play normal poker with 11BB or 12BB? Does it depend on your position, or how aggressive your table is, or what size the other stacks are? I've seen more an more people doing a min raise with a pretty small 10BB stack, is this bad play or good tricky play? I must admit first I thought it was pretty dumb, but sometimes it does look strong, like someone had a big pair and wants to lure in some action, not just get a bunch of folds.
 
eetenor

eetenor

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Villains and Range.

What's a short shove/fold stack for you? 8BB, 10BB, 12BB? Can you still play normal poker with 11BB or 12BB? Does it depend on your position, or how aggressive your table is, or what size the other stacks are? I've seen more an more people doing a min raise with a pretty small 10BB stack, is this bad play or good tricky play? I must admit first I thought it was pretty dumb, but sometimes it does look strong, like someone had a big pair and wants to lure in some action, not just get a bunch of folds.


Thank you for posting

Poker is difficult because of the very thing your post describes. All of the above play a factor in what is a short stack and how do we play it. That is why NL is about knowing your villains.

NIT LAG TAG Calling Station all respond differently. So if I had 16bb and I had AK In Mid Position and the Button was a calling station I shove it. Why? I am likely to get called and I will double to 34bb when I win. If I min raise 2 bb BTN calls Flop AXX I bet Btn folds 80% of hands.

If Btn is a LAG I bet 3BB as BTN will raise call off.

NIT I need to trap.

TAG combo of plays.

The key is to be taking notes during the tournament and have an idea of who your villains are. Focus on that the rest becomes easier.

Hope this helps

:):)
 
dbchristy

dbchristy

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Thank you for posting

Poker is difficult because of the very thing your post describes. All of the above play a factor in what is a short stack and how do we play it. That is why NL is about knowing your villains.

NIT LAG TAG Calling Station all respond differently. So if I had 16bb and I had AK In Mid Position and the Button was a calling station I shove it. Why? I am likely to get called and I will double to 34bb when I win. If I min raise 2 bb BTN calls Flop AXX I bet Btn folds 80% of hands.

If Btn is a LAG I bet 3BB as BTN will raise call off.

NIT I need to trap.

TAG combo of plays.

The key is to be taking notes during the tournament and have an idea of who your villains are. Focus on that the rest becomes easier.

Hope this helps

:):)

Loved the original question, and your response, thanks so much I too have problem in my short game
 
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AlbieTross

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I consider anything below 10 BB to be short stacked and play my stack accordingly.
 
eetenor

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Hand Analysis.

Loved the original question, and your response, thanks so much I too have problem in my short game


Thank you for responding.

If you take notes on a specific hand then make a thread. Let me know of the thread and I will respond.

If there is a thread you would like to discuss let me know.

Hope this helps

:):)
 
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crimsonshroud88

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Beautiful answer by Eetenor.
Will add my 2 cents though: you might want to call on the big blind even 5-9 blinds deep. If you hit any draw or pair, you can shove and put BU or CO in a tough spot.
In general, as soon as you hit 7-8 blinds and someone is min-raising before you, you don't have any fold equity.
 
Amanda A

Amanda A

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Thanks
Eetenor and everyone, yes different situations warrant different plays and I'm just really starting to realize how important it is to use different plays with different opponents. Thanks for highlighting that. You're right that's what makes poker so interesting. Also good advice (thx crimsonshroud) to consider limping and shoving if you get a piece of the flop in any way. THANKS​
 
maclina

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What's a short shove/fold stack for you? 8BB, 10BB, 12BB? Can you still play normal poker with 11BB or 12BB? Does it depend on your position, or how aggressive your table is, or what size the other stacks are? I've seen more an more people doing a min raise with a pretty small 10BB stack, is this bad play or good tricky play? I must admit first I thought it was pretty dumb, but sometimes it does look strong, like someone had a big pair and wants to lure in some action, not just get a bunch of folds.


For me 10BB unless at the bubble. I will wait for his pass.
 
Katie Dozier

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In general, I’d suggest to try to think of what defines a short stack as more of a sliding scale than a black and white issue. I think that common guidelines (such as playing shove/fold poker with 10bbs or fewer) are helpful in reminding us how inclined we should be to go all-in, but they shouldn’t be iron-clad rules if the goal is playing our absolute best.

For example, heads-up with an 11bb effective stack would mean we couldn’t min-raise according to many “rules” out there about not leaving ourselves under 10bb after a raise. However, there are a lot of situations where it would be more profitable to min raise than to play strictly shove/fold, such as if the bb is folding to all ins a high percent of the time, but happy to call pre flop min raises and flop c-bets, and we look down at AA!
 
neiroob

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I can sit for a long time and wait for the right hand and the right situation for the game when my stack drops to 7-8 blinds, then I start to get worried and try to steal the bank with less suitable hands.
 
Tenek26

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First, it all depends on the speed of the tournament. If this is a turbo tournament or, especially, a hyper turbo, then even a 20-30 bb stack is a reason to think about pushing / folding with above-average hands. Because the blinds will soon grow, and the stack size less than 15 bb has 0 “fold equity” and, most likely, will collect a multi-pot during all-in. But if the tournament speed is low, we can still open a raise to 3 bb with a stack of 15 bb. In addition, the best solution would be to “stop and go,” because any all-in is always a coin that can knock out of the tournament. If we use “stop and go,” with a stack of 15 bb and do not hit the board, we can put all the remaining chips on a bluff, and if our opponent does not like the flop, he will probably fold.
 
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