What to do with Pocket Pairs??

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jackaoliver

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Hello, i play fairly frequent and am a slightly profitable player. I play mostly online S&G's. However am always stumped over what to do with with pocket pairs and have got to the point at times where i would rather not have them! I understand you would like to see the flop for the cheapest you possibly can. However with things like 9's and 10's i dont know whether to raise pre. As if any over card comes on the flop you always feel like you are behind.
I would appreciate if you would be able to help me, thanks
 
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jcdagenius

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you should add some pocket pairs to your 3 betting range thus adding fold equity when you c-bet. it is also a good move just to flat call off implied odds as in if you flop a set or you can still win with right board coming out. any made hand preflop is worth having but if you are overcalling in spots where people are raising and 3 betting just learn when to get out the hand.
 
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jcdagenius

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you should add some pocket pairs to your 3 betting range thus adding fold equity when you c-bet. it is also a good move just to flat call off implied odds as in if you flop a set or you can still win with right board coming out. any made hand preflop is worth having but if you are overcalling in spots where people are raising and 3 betting just learn when to get out the hand. I would also look into shove spots with my pairs preflop because you will be ahead a lot of times and can easily double or get a fold.
 
ScottieDuncan

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10s or better raise. Call on lower pocket pairs.
 
AlfieAA

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Raise all pocket pairs in Early positions...if you are in middle position and someone has raised behind you then call....if someone in lp comes over the top with a squeeze and he doesn't have 20x the raise to cover his stack then fold....in late positions you can call raises, but never open limp...you wanna build a decent pot for when you do hit a set....if you open limp and the bb checks and you hit your set, you aint gonna get paid....if you raised however and he calls then there's a good chance you will depending on flop texture, his range, your percieved range, stack size, player type etc.....basically it just depends on what's happening at the table....play position and it will click eventually....also you can 3bet squeeze with 99> depending on who you are up against.
 
fletchdad

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Too vague to answer. Like, you open TT UTG, get 1-2 caller IP, or maybe just a call from SB-BB. Gonna be way different then if you open BTN with same, and get called or even 3 bet. I 4 bet sometimes in this situation, sometimes I fold. I might just even call as well - IF I have a post flop plan that makes my call seem the best play. It all depends on the situation.

Or, you get 3 bet from the SB who has 3 bet you a lot this session and you have been 4 betting and getting folds. You want to perhaps react different than if he has been 3 betting you and you have been playing passive.

And the examples go on in the infinite.

Post hand histories with info on opponents, table dynamics, history etc.
 
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Its a very rare thing to flop a set so one school of thought is since those pps are strongest pfeflop you should raise preflop. I almost always raise pps pre unless my villian is a tag player. Good luck.
 
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jackaoliver

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Thanks for the reply's, so if i was 3 bet by someone in a late position and i have anything 9's or better i should just shove? seeing as this could be seen as a squeeze? obviously depending on the type of player and previous tendencies.
 
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jackaoliver

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AlfieAA said:
Raise all pocket pairs in Early positions...if you are in middle position and someone has raised behind you then call....if someone in lp comes over the top with a squeeze and he doesn't have 20x the raise to cover his stack then fold....in late positions you can call raises, but never open limp...you wanna build a decent pot for when you do hit a set....if you open limp and the bb checks and you hit your set, you aint gonna get paid....if you raised however and he calls then there's a good chance you will depending on flop texture, his range, your percieved range, stack size, player type etc.....basically it just depends on what's happening at the table....play position and it will click eventually....also you can 3bet squeeze with 99> depending on who you are up against.
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you say all pocket pairs in any position? even pockets 3's 5's? and what about bet sizing at this time? should i be trying to represent a bigger hand than i have and raising 4/5x or the standard 3x raise? thanks
 
fletchdad

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jackaoliver said:
Thanks for the reply's, so if i was 3 bet by someone in a late position and i have anything 9's or better i should just shove? seeing as this could be seen as a squeeze? obviously depending on the type of player and previous tendencies.
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He will call with QQ+ and AK, so your shove will either get worse hands to fold and better hands to call. If you open 99-JJ UTG and get 3 bet from a player in LP, you can call to setmine, but this will be player dependent. If he is a real agro 3 bettor, you can call, and plan on c/r a lot of flops, but this may also lose you a lot of money. You can just 4 bet if you think his 3 bet range is wide and his 5 bet range is real tight. But this is all so specific that it cant really be answered like this. Post some hands and then it will be a lot easier for people to comment.

jackaoliver said:
you say all pocket pairs in any position? even pockets 3's 5's? and what about bet sizing at this time? should i be trying to represent a bigger hand than i have and raising 4/5x or the standard 3x raise? thanks
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I only change my bet sizing if I think a bad player will call no matter what I bet. I play 6 max, and have an UTG opening range like AJs+, 77+, KQs most always, and I can widen that considerably depending on the table dynamics. I will open 77 or AQo or AA the same, unless, like I said, I think a player will call 3x or 8x and wont notice if I do one or the other.
 
AlfieAA

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jackaoliver said:
you say all pocket pairs in any position? even pockets 3's 5's? and what about bet sizing at this time? should i be trying to represent a bigger hand than i have and raising 4/5x or the standard 3x raise? thanks
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yeah if you have pocket 3's-5's in early position then just raise x3....dont change your bet sizing in terms of your hand strength...that would be a bad habit to get into....although you could change your bet size depending on the player types at your table....if for example you get AK in early position and you have a bunch of maniacs behind you, you could x5-6 to get more folds and go up against 1 or 2 players....if however everyone folds then it doesnt matter....if you raised x3 on a loose aggro table you could get 5 callers...AK doesnt look good now right?...coz they play best against less players.....pocket pairs play good against many players, because if you hit a set you are laughing....and i wouldnt shove your pairs 99-TT-JJ pre flop unless it was in a tourney and you had 10-15bb's.....just open raise them from all positions and if a good player 3bets then let 22-77 go...maybe even 8's...just depends on villians range...if he has a big stack and has 20 times the 3bet left behind you have odds to setmine...if he has 5-10-15 times the amount of his 3bet left behind in his stack just fold....hope that helps...gl
 
Randall McMurphy

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It sounds like Alfie's talking about cash games
I don't like to raise 3BB UTG with a pair of 4's in the first level of a tournament.
Limp and set mine. And you can call a raise if it's less than 7% effective stacks.
 
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AlfieAA said:
yeah if you have pocket 3's-5's in early position then just raise x3....dont change your bet sizing in terms of your hand strength...that would be a bad habit to get into....although you could change your bet size depending on the player types at your table....if for example you get AK in early position and you have a bunch of maniacs behind you, you could x5-6 to get more folds and go up against 1 or 2 players....if however everyone folds then it doesnt matter....if you raised x3 on a loose aggro table you could get 5 callers...AK doesnt look good now right?...coz they play best against less players.....pocket pairs play good against many players, because if you hit a set you are laughing....and i wouldnt shove your pairs 99-TT-JJ pre flop unless it was in a tourney and you had 10-15bb's.....just open raise them from all positions and if a good player 3bets then let 22-77 go...maybe even 8's...just depends on villians range...if he has a big stack and has 20 times the 3bet left behind you have odds to setmine...if he has 5-10-15 times the amount of his 3bet left behind in his stack just fold....hope that helps...gl
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Ok i understand the bet sizing and how this could be an instant tell which you do not want to give away! And playing S&G there is uasually not very many maniacs at the table and people just play tight. especially in the Fifty FIfty's. So you should be keeping the 20times rule even though the odds of flopping a set are 12.5%, 1-8.. .. thanks
 
WeenieSVK

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It depends on a lot of things.. you cant play pocket pairs still same way... it depends a lot on position, action before you, your stack, phase of tournament etc.., Nobody can give you here complete explanation cause its for really long interview :)
 
AlfieAA

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yeah sorry OP, wasnt paying attention that this was in the tourney section, at the time i saw this on recent posts....durr, need to look at the specifics.....yeah i was mainly talking about cash games, although i think i mentioned shoving when 10bb's or less, which applies to tourneys, with you asking about shoving small/medium pp's.....yeah as its tourney i would just let small/medium pockets go in the early stages particularly if you are OOP...if however its unopened and you are on the button or small blind then they are great to steal with...or if its a limped pot then you can see a cheap flop... :)
 
barracuuuda

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pocket pairs pays off very well if you were to hit trips on the flop with a dry board. I tend to raise pocket pairs 3-4x the blind when my chip stack is pretty decent.
 
AlfieAA

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barracuuuda said:
pocket pairs pays off very well if you were to hit trips on the flop with a dry board. I tend to raise pocket pairs 3-4x the blind when my chip stack is pretty decent.
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sets not trips.....if you hit trips you would have 1 in your hand and 2 on the board :)
 
trekmaster

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I play mtt's mostly so Iplay my smaller pp's very cautiously early and j's or better aggressive.then at the end of a tourny especialy the ft play all my pps very aggresively.
 
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if you come with pair of 9 or 10 you can give a raise 2-3 x to try to bite if the flop comes A, Q, J or K and you do not crack you make a c-bet and take it back fold .
 
Poker Orifice

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jackaoliver said:
I play mostly online S&G's.
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Speed up the learning curve & grab yourself Collin Moshmann's Sit'nGo Strategy book. It will pay for itself in a day even if only playing the micros.

Another good SNG book is > "Secrets of Sit'n'gos" by Phil Shaw.

There's also a freebie 4part book/guide you can grab online called "The SNG Blueprint". Not as good as the two others I mentioned but well-worth reading for sure!
 
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Poker Orifice said:
Speed up the learning curve & grab yourself Collin Moshmann's Sit'nGo Strategy book. It will pay for itself in a day even if only playing the micros.

Another good SNG book is > "Secrets of Sit'n'gos" by Phil Shaw.

There's also a freebie 4part book/guide you can grab online called "The SNG Blueprint". Not as good as the two others I mentioned but well-worth reading for sure!
Click to expand...

Thanks for that advice I will have a look at them all! And I guess they areall available in the UK, as they are probably on amazon.
 
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jackaoliver

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AlfieAA said:
yeah sorry OP, wasnt paying attention that this was in the tourney section, at the time i saw this on recent posts....durr, need to look at the specifics.....yeah i was mainly talking about cash games, although i think i mentioned shoving when 10bb's or less, which applies to tourneys, with you asking about shoving small/medium pp's.....yeah as its tourney i would just let small/medium pockets go in the early stages particularly if you are OOP...if however its unopened and you are on the button or small blind then they are great to steal with...or if its a limped pot then you can see a cheap flop... :)
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No worries, its always a tough desicion to just fold 8's, 9's when out of position, but i understand the chances are low and therfore rather than making you chips they lose you chips in the long run. Just if you do see a flop you have to be willing to fold and as you say especially in the early stages. Thanks
 
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jackaoliver

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Aha Talking about Pocket Pairs, i decided to play heads up yesterday (after i got slightly annoyed after hitting the nut straight on the flop to only be beaten by a full house on the river) and first hand my opponent decided to shove, and seeing as i looked down upon aces i called. He had a pair of fives and hit his 5 on the flop.
 
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