What to do if your stack gets shorter?

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JohnBoe

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I think everybody knows that: you are in a tournament and it's running good, you was over the average for quite some time and already in the to 20% to 10% but now your stack gets shorter and shorter. In general I play lesser hands the shorter my stack is, but due to this I missed very good flops though. And the blinds are going up...

So what is the best thing to do here? A bluff is difficult to set up because of your short stack, so most likely you get called and folding most of the hands isn't good also because after a few orbits you could be out already from paying the ever rising blinds and antes.

Thanks for any advice from you guys :)
 
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ph_il

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The shorter your stack gets, the wider your hand range should be. So, don't play less hands, play more.
 
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Tode8

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You must find a good hand in good situation to move and double up or take a blinds, forgot about bluffing becose you don't have stack for that...and depends of that how short is it that stack,when you chip up you can see more hands but first you must looking for hand for double up like all in pre-flop.
 
BogdanStark

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More hands you need play with. Keep your eyes on situations you can profit from. Sometimes, you can double up only in virtue of blinds. If everybody folded you win nice blinds.
 
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JohnBoe

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Wow, haven't expected that I have to play more hands :O Thanks, I'll try it next time :)
 
trezvennick

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when you have short stack-diapason of playing hand will be more, because you can never waiting for a monster and blinds will eaten you))) you must some steal, but not often and you must know whom you can steal
 
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pachopaez

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I think that when your stack is so short is when you have to be more aggressive, if you have less than 10 BB should not expect a premium hand to send the all in
 
Poker Orifice

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The shorter your stack gets, the wider your hand range should be. So, don't play less hands, play more.

this is incorrect...
In actual fact, once we're in the 18-30bb zone, we're often needing to fold alot of hands we'd be playing if we were even just a bit deeper.

OP, you just need to adjust your play according to the size of your stack vs. the size of the blinds & vs. the other 'effective' stack sizes on your table (looking at the lobby to see if we're 'above avg.' or 'just over avg.', 'just below avg.', etc. means nothing at all.

There's a great series of articles written by Tony Dunst (Bond18) from quite a few years ago (well before he became known on TV with WPT ). One of them inparticular is called "Part 1 Stack Sizes" & it comes from an excellent series called "things it took me a while to learn" (there's ~18 parts in total)

I'm going to give a few points here from the article to give you an idea (his article is only 1 page long)

10bb's - (& under). any hand we're playing with this stack size will be allin (& actually in games with antes & also current play, 15bb's is often an open shove)

14-21bb's with a stack of this size, we can't really be opening with the intentions of folding to a 3bet. This stack size is actually ideal for 're-stealing'.

22-30bb's We obviously have more room for open-raising here & we're too deep to be restealling allin.

31-40bbs With this stack size we can open raise often (but also dependent upon our table... if we're playing vs. some aggressive players we'll need to adjust our play accordingly)
With a stack of this size it's important to understand that if we're choosing to 3bet vs. villain we need to do so with the intentions of calling their 4bet allin.(especially if we are 35bb's or under) as we'll be getting too great of a price to fold. "BUT" at the same time, 'if' villain is aware of this then we can actually 3bet steal (but this is the levelling game & probably not important in micro levels or for novice players).


Keep in mind what we think our opponents know about 'stack sizes' and adjustments that need to be made based on what we think... they think. (etc. etc.)

hope this helps
 
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dudu10grande

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When you start getting short you will not have much gameplay, ie push and fold, will have to stack maintenance, steal the blinds when you get GAP, to find a hand value and achieve double up.
 
SBEP

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Its that time of the game where u wait for a good shoving hands, hope that it holds and u double up, coz lets get frank here, if u open your range like some of the players suggest here, u would bleed out in no time, so w8 for a good shoving hand AT above any pocket pair from 66 up, or go a little tighter AQ above and 88 above, thats the only play u have short stack, but also mind your position when u shove, u dont want to shove in to 3+ people u are more likely to get called in two spots which will decrease your chances to double up.
 
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gattutoche85

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I often get scare and its little tricky overcome this stage, but I usually gone all in
 
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mrbond8844

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Pick and choose your hands wisely, you only need 1 or 2 good hands to put you back in the swing of things
 
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JohnBoe

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this is incorrect...
In actual fact, once we're in the 18-30bb zone, we're often needing to fold alot of hands we'd be playing if we were even just a bit deeper.

OP, you just need to adjust your play according to the size of your stack vs. the size of the blinds & vs. the other 'effective' stack sizes on your table (looking at the lobby to see if we're 'above avg.' or 'just over avg.', 'just below avg.', etc. means nothing at all.

There's a great series of articles written by Tony Dunst (Bond18) from quite a few years ago (well before he became known on TV with WPT ). One of them inparticular is called "Part 1 Stack Sizes" & it comes from an excellent series called "things it took me a while to learn" (there's ~18 parts in total)

I'm going to give a few points here from the article to give you an idea (his article is only 1 page long)

10bb's - (& under). any hand we're playing with this stack size will be allin (& actually in games with antes & also current play, 15bb's is often an open shove)

14-21bb's with a stack of this size, we can't really be opening with the intentions of folding to a 3bet. This stack size is actually ideal for 're-stealing'.

22-30bb's We obviously have more room for open-raising here & we're too deep to be restealling allin.

31-40bbs With this stack size we can open raise often (but also dependent upon our table... if we're playing vs. some aggressive players we'll need to adjust our play accordingly)
With a stack of this size it's important to understand that if we're choosing to 3bet vs. villain we need to do so with the intentions of calling their 4bet allin.(especially if we are 35bb's or under) as we'll be getting too great of a price to fold. "BUT" at the same time, 'if' villain is aware of this then we can actually 3bet steal (but this is the levelling game & probably not important in micro levels or for novice players).


Keep in mind what we think our opponents know about 'stack sizes' and adjustments that need to be made based on what we think... they think. (etc. etc.)

hope this helps

Oh, thanks, that was what I guessed to do :) . I'll read the article, thx for the summary :)
(I guess) this is it.
 
PershingSt

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Ya you have to be willing to gamble the shorter your stack becomes. You should also shove wider in later positions as it is less likely to be called . There are charts that can show you what is mathmatically correct to be shoving at certain stack sizes . Your opponents also factor in to what you can shove and how quickly you can begin to do so. Against tighter opponents you can shove a wider range of hands than vs aggressive opponents. Try to learn to maintain your stack above 10bbs at all stages or you lose mostly any fold equity you have over pre flop raisers
 
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mrbond8844

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I'd say minimum 10 bb, the blinds do in anybody with short stacks
 
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JohnBoe

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Ya you have to be willing to gamble the shorter your stack becomes. You should also shove wider in later positions as it is less likely to be called . There are charts that can show you what is mathmatically correct to be shoving at certain stack sizes . Your opponents also factor in to what you can shove and how quickly you can begin to do so. Against tighter opponents you can shove a wider range of hands than vs aggressive opponents. Try to learn to maintain your stack above 10bbs at all stages or you lose mostly any fold equity you have over pre flop raisers

Do you mean push fold charts? I looked them up recently, they are great! I never knew which cards are good enough to go all in with.
Thanks for that!
 
helpspb

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Gotta be little more aggro if you get too short. I'd say play more hands. Shorter you become more risks you have to take
 
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Jako7600

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If you search up "M levels" (your stack divided by blinds and antes) this will also give you an indicator of how you need to adjust your eange
 
milka1605

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The shorter your stack the more you play - complete nonsense. I personally am going in deep tight. I try sometimes to steal blidy , but it depends on your place at the table and do the aggressive players in front of you. And depends how close you are to the prizes. The smaller the stack , the range of hands for Allin wider. If the prizes and close the stack a little trying to stall for time to answer and choose a premium card or pocket pair Allin. If to speak about the game poker that a good player is not playing , and sitting and waiting map. One good shot is worth a lot.
 
xpvictor1

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Every situation is different

Tony Dunst may be an expert but not all advice applies to all situations. Poker is not a science because it involves people's emotions and temperment. How hot can you stand it in the kitchen until you need to get out, this is more important than how many BBs you have.
 
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dejan85

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Im a Little nervous than especialy when I was bad beaten,,try to back previouse stack...
 
ResAtDorsia

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You should open up your range and try to steal more blinds. As simple as that. Easier said than done though.
 
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rickroll

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+1 was kind of shocked by the advice given at this site at times, think it's more due to the mandatory activity to get freeroll access than anything else

this is incorrect...
In actual fact, once we're in the 18-30bb zone, we're often needing to fold alot of hands we'd be playing if we were even just a bit deeper.

OP, you just need to adjust your play according to the size of your stack vs. the size of the blinds & vs. the other 'effective' stack sizes on your table (looking at the lobby to see if we're 'above avg.' or 'just over avg.', 'just below avg.', etc. means nothing at all.

There's a great series of articles written by Tony Dunst (Bond18) from quite a few years ago (well before he became known on TV with WPT ). One of them inparticular is called "Part 1 Stack Sizes" & it comes from an excellent series called "things it took me a while to learn" (there's ~18 parts in total)

I'm going to give a few points here from the article to give you an idea (his article is only 1 page long)

10bb's - (& under). any hand we're playing with this stack size will be allin (& actually in games with antes & also current play, 15bb's is often an open shove)

14-21bb's with a stack of this size, we can't really be opening with the intentions of folding to a 3bet. This stack size is actually ideal for 're-stealing'.

22-30bb's We obviously have more room for open-raising here & we're too deep to be restealling allin.

31-40bbs With this stack size we can open raise often (but also dependent upon our table... if we're playing vs. some aggressive players we'll need to adjust our play accordingly)
With a stack of this size it's important to understand that if we're choosing to 3bet vs. villain we need to do so with the intentions of calling their 4bet allin.(especially if we are 35bb's or under) as we'll be getting too great of a price to fold. "BUT" at the same time, 'if' villain is aware of this then we can actually 3bet steal (but this is the levelling game & probably not important in micro levels or for novice players).


Keep in mind what we think our opponents know about 'stack sizes' and adjustments that need to be made based on what we think... they think. (etc. etc.)

hope this helps
 
Poker Orifice

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Tony Dunst may be an expert but not all advice applies to all situations. Poker is not a science because it involves people's emotions and temperment. How hot can you stand it in the kitchen until you need to get out, this is more important than how many BBs you have.

you mean like.. Balls > Brains ?

... sigh
 
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