Very Deep Run - Folding JJ as Short Stack

30 People remain (2,450 entries)
New table,no info
Blinds: 120k/240k Ante: 40k
Hero Stack 3.7m (15bb)

Hero Dealt J-J on the button

UTG opens for 2.5 bb
LJ reraises to 7.5 bb
HJ shoves all in 35 bb

Hero folds J-J
UTG folds
LJ folds

I ended up busting tournament 30 minutes later in a standard play. This was the only hand I was going back and forth with and was interested in other players perspectives.

You agree with folding J-J here?

As a middle stack average 15 out of 30 or big stack 5 out of 30 at risk versus the all in I might fold due to pay ladders,
Call all day long as the shortstack you might not get a better hand before wiped by the blinds.

The dilemma of pocket JJ, i would have probably folded, but utg does not necessarily means he has a strong hand, coz a lot of players nowadays make that utg raise with medium suited hands, but id say it is a good fold, but if you called i would not think it is too bad either, 15 bigs is ok to call specially when you can tripple up if you get lucky, i think these are those moments where you can take a lead in the tournament!

If your goal was to make a few more bucks, fold. If your goa was to win, call.

I assume pay jumps were a big factor in your decision. When I add the fact that you were at a new table and no info on the players I have to agree with your fold.

Solid fold I'd say

Thinking about prize jumping was a fold without much thinking, but if you're focused on winning a call it would be the best choice.

I'm never folding Jacks here with only 15 big blinds left.

I'd have called here Smells like an AK shove or under pairs, unlikely someone goes all in with AA-KK here, maybe QQ.
I get the fold as you were trying to ladder up & table dynamics come into play for e.g if it's a very active table I could see myself folding here if there are significant pay jumps but if it's a top-heavy tournament, always going with it here, maybe even tens.

Good fold, too much action for a pair of jacks. Two days ago I did the test of calling with jacks in an extremely similar situation. The one who had opened showed aces, and the one who had re-raised showed kings. Without information, better wait for another spot.

I think either a fold or a call is fine in that position. Depends on money jumps factor and how the players were playing.

I personally think I'd call, because you will be flipping a lot (vs AK and maybe AQ), and playing vs pocket 10's too. Ofc you fear utg, LJ or HJ has AA KK or QQ, but with 15BB Jacks are a very good hand to double or triple up, and maybe you wont have a better chance than this. If they had AA KK or QQ call it a day and its gg.

Anyway, I think folding is fine aswell.

I would have folded as well and here's why. Even though you turn over your cards and you currently lead, most likely situation is your opponents have over cards of KQ or AK, AQ, something like that. What I have experience is even though you might think your opponents have less outs because of holding similar hands, the cruelness of poker bites you hard and a overcard hits the board to beat Jacks and bust out.

I really like playing Jacks, but I would fold, I guess...

With 15 bb it is also a clear call for me.

You're in the money and with JJ it's a good chance to double up.

In such a phase, you will not get around coin flips. And if the opponent here shows QQ + shit happens.

It would be a fold for me. My thought is you have 3 people that show interest in the pot. you have to think LJ definitely has something to cold 4-bet shove but HJ also could be sitting with QQ+ especially with the smaller cold 3-bet. At best you are flipping but you have a good chance of being dominated. yest you are short but this seems coolerish to me and I would look for a better spot where you are open shoving rather than calling a shove.

i dont know!!! JJ is a really strong hand against 3 players. i would have shoved in.

I wouldn't fault you for a call here, I think that becomes pretty player dependent and if call and are flipping vs 2 overs you are still only about a 60% favorite to win the hand...which in the end isn't as good as AK vs AQ.

But to me - given the action in front of you, Jack's kind of shrink up in this spot. Kind of hard to see AK 4bet shoving here for 35bb. This move conveys alot of strength and the best case scenario for you here is that you are up against 2 overs and racing for your tournament life. The best case scenario is he shoves with TT or less which I dont see any decent player doing here. Another big issue we face is our position - everything starts off great - and then quickly goes to hell as the hand plays out - we are facing a 4bet all in and we are holding Jack's with 2 other preflop aggressors behind us yet to act. If we were the LJ and we were the 3better preflop...yeah we are heads up at this point when it folds to us and we can make the crying call and if hes got to goods we just accept our fate and move on.

As it is, given the action taken when it comes around to us, I think I lean more towards a fold here. You do not want to take Jack's to a possible 4 way flop, and if we follow solid gto principles no hands that you are currently beating would take this line. I say we make the painful fold - we take the added needle watching the other players fold out as well - move on, and jam it in at a better point when we can become the aggressor.

Big difference getting it all in as the aggressor and having to call it off for your tournament life.

Even in chip EV I think, calling here is only marginally profitable at best. Ranges for cold 4-betting are typically very narrow, and the guy is risking a pretty big stack, if someone has him covered. Add in ICM and this is clearly a losing call. There is a large risk, we end up 3-ways or even 4-ways, and trippling our stack does not triple our EV in the tournament.

I dont quite buy the argument, we are on the brink of being blinded away. We are at least a few orbits away from getting really short, and its not unlikely we can find a spot to steal the blinds and antes before then. 15BB is an ideal rejam stack, and its always better to jam than call. So I think, this is a good disciplined fold.

I like the fold here. What were the stack sizes of UTG and LJ ? Given that there was a 4-bet and you still have 4 players to respond after you, I think JJ would have been in trouble. I'd rather fold and push a weaker hand when there is less action and less players left to act. As a previous member wrote, you'd be in bad shape even if you had 2 opponents with only over cards.

It's all in all day. You have to double up and win chips at this point in the Tournament. You went out on a weaker hand then JJ. More Than Likely. You have to make a play to Win the Tournament. Good Luck At The Tables.

Hi! I don’t think that I would fold this hand with 13 bb on the stack, except if it was a bubble. The blinds are big enough, in any case, in the near future it is necessary to do all in; but any short stack has a very small fold equity and receive many calls.

I'm not trying to be nit picky or singling anyone's opinion out here...but all the people saying they would call it off here behind a cold 4bet like this are surprising to me. If you are definitely supposed to call off here (and I dont think you are) then it's no wonder my QQ and my KK always catapult me deep in tournaments like this with people so willing to stack off because they think Jack's are so strong.

When I break this hand down the 4bet shove - for me - is JJ at MINIMUM. I think even AKs just flats the 3bet and looks to call off any further jams if action makes it back around. Most competent players will not 4bet jam in TT or less here, so I dont see it being any pairs worse than JJ. That all being said - since we already have JJ and there is only one combination of them left - this is almost ALWAYS going to show up as QQ+ just given the line taken here. I think - and it is only my personal opinion - that the fold here is not only disciplined but it is necessary.

As I said before in my earlier post, if they are ripping it in here with AKs and we call off we are just about a 55/45 to win the hand and we are virtually flipping for our tournament life...I dont like this spot, and it's going to end badly for us more than we want it to. I'd rather take my chances and wait. There are tons of combos I can get it in with that will give me 55/45 odds and are nowhere near as strong as Jack's so I see no need to call off such a strong raise with what looks to have become a much less stronger holding.

Look for a better spot, hope to jam it in with a dominant hand. AK or AQ vs any worse Ax will offer us a 75/25 spot and we are much better off getting it all in at a spot like this.

I hope this helps

vox1er said:

30 People remain (2,450 entries)
New table,no info
Blinds: 120k/240k Ante: 40k
Hero Stack 3.7m (15bb)

Hero Dealt J-J on the button

UTG opens for 2.5 bb
LJ reraises to 7.5 bb
HJ shoves all in 35 bb

Hero folds J-J
UTG folds
LJ folds

I ended up busting tournament 30 minutes later in a standard play. This was the only hand I was going back and forth with and was interested in other players perspectives.

You agree with folding J-J here?

Click to expand...

I like your fold here. I usually want to be the original raiser or the 3-better here.

There is so much action challenging the superiority of your pair.

It's always sad to see that you might have been good with JJ....but in general I like the fold.

Good luck !

It's really hard to say without the extra meta-info. It would help to know what stats these guys were playing. But as you posted it, I'd say decent fold... BEST case scenario is that you are flipping. Anything else has you dominated...

What was your mind set, win the tournament or just make a little money. If you are looking at the pay jumps fold. Looking to win I'd go all in.