Value bet on the river?

Here was an interesting hand that I played last night at a local free bar tourney with about 30 players...

6-handed NLHE blinds 100 - 200

hero is UTG at 3700
villain is on the cut off w/ about 3000

hero has AA & bets 600

everybody folds and the villian calls, and the flop is KQJ rainbow

I check & he bets 600... I call

The next card is a blank low-card(the suit doesn't matter at this point)

Again... I check & he bets 600...I call

The river card is another queen.

The board is pretty scary, & I have never played with this guy b4 . There are alot of combinations that can beat me (A-T, K-J,JJ,9-T,Q - x) Should I place a value bet when I am out of position w/ the AA?

This is my thought and I maybe wrong here and if so, I'm sure I'll be corrected. You're right about that being a scary flop.

The problem here is if he had KK preflop, he's got you. But if I hit KK, I'm reraising it preflop. However AK, I'm calling. AQ I might call if it's suited. But this of course assumes he's playing tight.

You've already shown strength by raising it 3BB preflop bet. I think I would have have bet on the flop and been the aggressor. If he's tight and hit AK, he's likely to fold here. But since you checked, he becomes the aggressor knowing he's got TPTK. Now if he reraises you, he likely has KK and is sitting on trips and it becomes an easy fold for you. Now it's possible he slow plays the KK on the flop but that seems risky. If an A or 10 hits, then you've got him beat.

Now if he's playing loose, then you've got a problem as it becomes harder to guess his range. And you're right as to the number of card combinations that has you beat. And this is where I have a problem...playing against loose players. But what I would do is increase my preflop bet to probably 5xBB.

That's my thoughts here. That's a flop where I don't want another card to come up if possible, let alone the river.

Oh and to answer your question about value bet on the river card....I think I might. It's a bit risky but you may make him think you made your boat. But then again, I tend to be too aggressive in situations like this.

The flop was horrible and probably killed your hand and altho tough I would try and fold after his bet on the flop

I know it is big to fold AA but especially live you could fold and show your rockets and maybe gain a little respect at the table

inti

I think that you may be right that I should have c-bet after the flop or even the turn(just to prevent a miracle card on the river), but I wouldn't bet 5XBB pre-flop. AA could still have a big +EV after the flop, and sometimes that's a good thing against a loose player.

Just keep in mind that I play online most of the time, my table etiquitte sux, and I had never played in this tourney before. That's why I was playing so tight.

I also noticed that it is a bit harder to be patient playing at a live table bcuz there are so many fewer hands dealt each hour than there are online.

By only betting 3X the big blinds after the flop & the turn doesn't it seem that he is playing a bit tight tho?

You're right about the 5x BB. After thinking about it, that's a bit much based on BB amount vs your stack.

How many hands did the villain play prior this one? That's what I'd base him on playing tight vs loose. Of course if it's still early, then you won't have a great read on him. So then I go back to the cbet on the flop. He raises, I fold. He folds, then great. He calls....well then you have a decision...fire the next shot or not.

Like I said, I tend to play quite aggressively in situations like this. Of course, I've been burned a number of times too doing this...

Any reads on this guy? I'd just check and probably call if he bets small, if he's a typical donk.

If he's bluffing with an underpair like 88, let him bluff again, because he's not going to call a bet. There's probably not many worse hands that will call if we bet (KT, KJ, K9 maybe, AJ perhaps).

This was only during the second round (blinds started at 50 -100), but I'll definitely remember to be more aggressive when I get to the later stages of the tourney.

You have two options "the one bullet" and "check fold." This is not a good time for a check call, as it fails to give you any information. If you fire on the flop 3/4 pot bet, and get reraised=easy fold, if your opp calls, id be ready for the ck fold(if opp bet little say given me 11 to 1, id ck call here, for a ten). If he checks behind on the turn, id value bet the river as long as i don set up on the river, as i probably just lost to the strait, as my opp probably took a free card for the strait, in which im ck calling the river(also if board pairs). The best approch is probably just the ck fold, there are alot of hands that have you beat AT, KQ, KJ, QJ, 9T, QQ, JJ, and less likely KK, also alot of hands can force you off your hand, even tho your leading AK, KT, QT, JT, Tx, Ax, Kx, maybe even Qx, you see thats a lot of hands you could be against, that you'll meet resistance. Ya you might fold to pair 88, but hell QJs is just as likely. Terrible flop!

terrible flops

Terrible flops are just that---terrible. It becomes a roulette or slot machine play. Don't go to crazy on that hand and get away from it a little better off or not to much harm ---and then on to the next flop.

Its all about knowing your oponent, firstly, never undervalue him after few hands, this value check after flop is good, only if u know, your oponent is aggresive or if he often protects his hand with "blind rises" but if u have not history with him or some tells its always better to protect this monster and after that flop to protect it with rather bigger raise than small. small raise or check is often known as a hidden monster, If he reraises, its certain that u faces better hand or very crazy agressive player(is he protects hand with those reraises often)... my opinion is that is better to protect monsters if u dont know your oponnent well...pair is allways only a pair...

These are are more like friendly games(free poker), so there is alot more checking going on than you would expect in a cash game or a buy-in tournament.

I would like to thank everyone for their input on this thread, and I can't say that it hasn't been helpful.

Last night I won a 12 man tourney in the 1st round ($15 bar tab:beer: ), and came in fourth in an 18 man tourney duriing the second round.

We should do this again sometime soon...