Unethical or good strategy?

ChaDi

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Ok, so last night I was accused of cheating at the final table of a tournament. I don't think what I did was unethical, although I can see their point.

Here's the situation:

4 handed at the Final Table of an 18 dollar rebuy tournament, a little over 1300 for first place. There were three of us with a little more than 100,000 in chips and one shortstack with around 25,000.

I quickly realized that the other big stacks were playing way too tight because they were afraid of being knocked out while the short stack hung on. They were playing simply to move up the ladder and get a higher payout.

I seized the opportunity and began playing very recklessly, and they in turn allowed me to run the table over. I was stealing more or less at will and building my stack up at the expense of the other big stacks.

The short stack was playing kind of carefully, looking for a good spot to get his chips in (I thought he was playing too tight)

At any rate, all that exposition is to set up this hand...

I had stolen myself up to like 170K and the small stack had blinded down to 14K.

With blinds at 5/10 K I was in the BB with a random hand. (I honestly forget...let's call it 10 4 offsuit, because it was somewhere around there) The short stack raised all in, 4K more to 14 total and the small blind folded. I was faced with the obvious, no brainer decision of calling 4k into a pot of like 25 k.

I folded.

the other two big stacks went crazy and accused me of collusion and cheating and soft playing and so on.

I merely reasoned that it would be a better situation for me to keep the short stack alive.

As it turned out, the move sort of paid off. I was able to continue stealing blinds more or less at will, and by the time the next player got knocked out (NOT the shortstack who, in part thanks to me, made a comeback) I had a huge chiplead.

By the time we got 3 handed I had around 75 per cent of the chips in play and coasted to the victory. All throughout this the rail was accusing me of cheating and collusion etc.

I ran the story by a poker playing friend of mine and he felt my actions were "unethical" because I didn't "play equally tough against everyone."

I still maintain my actions were ok but I'd be interested in other opinions.

Thanks
 
Airburn

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Next time turn off the chat and dont answer,You can play however u want to do if you feel like it can help you win or move up - you can even fold an AA vs 7-2 who are they to say anything, just my opinion
 
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BluffMeAllIn

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I can see their point, and I can see your point.
You were working of a strategy which involved the shortstack sticking around for the time being, personally I would have called the extra 4k (granted he could have won the hand and everything still could have continued as it was) and hope to put the guy out of his misery. Your strategy certainly did pay off for you with tid, but I can also see how this would be perceived as collusion between you and the shortstack (especially since as you mentioned the ss wasn't the next person to go out, because of your fold giving them more chips).

This is deff a touchy situation for sure. Congrats on the win, but in their shoes would probably perceive this as collusion (you should have just told them it was a misclick probably, so that wouldn't have appeared to be that you meant to keep the shortstack alive when you should have been calling in that spot.)
 
skrsh76

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Good strategy.. Something to think about. Though I see their point it I just your and only your call
 
cr7_rato

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will be played your way and that's what matters
 
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If I were one of the other players I too would think collusion. I think collusion does occur frat brothers, buddies, congress, aliens. I can just hear it, I got Aces...Fold
 
jorzunik

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do not worry everyone has their own way of playing .. in the tables should not matter what they say the other players in the chat .. it is better to disconnect and make your own decisions.
 
olliejjc16

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well played, if you felt keeping the other player in gave you an increased chance of winning the tournament than you did absolutely nothing wrong
 
Snakmacher

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I dont know hoe certain players would call me - you played and win so according to my oppinion it is fine and clean. I on the other hand got to duel with one Slovak player - it was 0,25 USD buy-in 400 ppl total.. That guy offered me a deal that we could split that win 100 USD to 50:50 and I agreed - I would be idiot not to. He won and we split in half - some may too see it unethical. But till you are not banned for your actions and you dont use some 3rd party software than it is correct... People will be still angry and yelous and so on... they have it in their nature. :)
 
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You can play poker however you want. Nobody can tell you how too play : when to raise , when to fold. That's why poker is a game of strategy too , because if we would all play one type of game , this game would be so boring.
 
duggs

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its not unethical in any way, completely fine
 
T-Dubs82

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i see your side, and i see their side since it was only 4k more
 
IPlay

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I say, Well played! They wanted you to be loose and sloppy so they can play tight and move up the ladder. Not your fault.
 
DrazaFFT

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I see their point, when im loosing and there is a short stack on the table ill want to big stack to do the job for me and when he folds i get pissed, but have i right to be pissed of course not, everyone can play poker in the way that they think that will bring them most money. period


to your situation... you can do what ever you want how ever you want as long as you dont know any other hole cards (team play or what is the name for it) you are not cheating!!!

Keep playing the way that brings you money, GL at the tables
 
n3rv

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It's only collusion if you are intentionally helping the other player stay in the game for both of your benefits and are chip dumping on purpose for him in particular to stay in the game. If you are playing different against one more-so than the other because of playing style then I think it is fine, although I appreciate they are fine lines and hard to judge.

Did you know the player that you folded to? If you were friendly to the person who you effectively gave your chips to in the chatbox then I can see why they would assume that you were colluding and feel it was unethical. I'd need that extra piece of information to link you together before I'd assume it was collusion. I'd suggest, as Airburn says, best to avoid the chat if you are going to play this way. And best not to get upset if someone accuses you of playing easier and helping another player on purpose, if that is what you did. You just didn't collude with him about it.
 
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Akorps

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That's not cheating, that is a known stratagem for such situations. It's in the books if you want to look it up and quote it in your defense.
 
Chipper_Tracy42

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What if this situation happened in a Live setting and the players involved are Phil Hellmuth type of guys who have a short fuse and very confrontational. To make matters worse, these players are huge/big guys - very intimidating and somewhat irrational. What would you do?
 
stately7

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Totally fine and a good strategy for that particular situation.

The 2 other big stacks were annoyed you didn't do something to help them (assist with knocking out the short stack), but rather kept him alive to help you (continue stealing, leverage their overly tight play).
 
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I don't see anything wrong with that. You're allowed to play whatever hands you want to, and the whole reason of the tournament is to win. You were just giving yourself the best shot at succeeding, nothing wrong with that.
 
Gorak

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This is not cheating BUT I would not use this strategy. Keeping a player alive when you have a chance to eliminate him is a risk. This could have backfired.

The only time I love this strategy is when I AM the shortstacked player :)
 
naruto_miu

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Ok, I just want to ask one question, did you know the short stack at all? Were you 2 from the same country? Were part of the same poker forum by any chance?"

If yes to any of these then yes I can see why they would think such a thing, and you should also feel the same way.

Now If you answer no to all these questions, than you played a strategy which I honestly never thought about applying/playing but now just gave me another move to use in future games.


Is the move itself soft play (Come on man, it is, lets be fair about it), Is the move unethical (Once again, lets be reasonable), Is this a great strategy that you used to increase your chances of winning this game (Yes it was).

Congrats on the win, and well done, but I honestly couldn't have used that move myself (Just saying)
 
t1tpfdc

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... Is this a great strategy that you used to increase your chances of winning this game (Yes it was).

Agree with that. And isn't that what a player is supposed to do, play to advance in the tournament?
Well done!
 
D

deestee

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all you were doing was exploiting the weaknesses that were in front of you, good play in my opnion
 
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