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blueskies

blueskies

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Today I was in a tourney. I was in BB and got dealt JJ. I had about 20 BBs left, and the button raised to 3x BB, SB folds.
I thought about pushing all in right there, but I was about 200 people away from the money (10,000 people freeroll) so I decided to just call and see the flop first.

Flop comes QK8. I check, and the button raises me all in. It was possible that he had hit a Q or K, but I also thought he was just trying to run me over (he was big stacked). But I couldn't bring myself to call and folded. I ended up finishing 16 people from the money.

I should have gone for broke and shoved it all in preflop, right? Finishing 500th would only mean $1. I dunno what I was thinking.
 
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WiZZiM

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if the guy was raising a lot then yeah, prob reraise all in, you have a good stack to make a 3bet all in with you have fold equity but really, if he is a loose player, you want a call from like ACe rage type hands where your a 3 to 1 favourite


its definately better if you play to win in mtt... you will end up better in the long run playing to win, not to scrape into the money
 
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WiZZiM

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can you supply some more info next time, im guessing a lot..

like what position your in.. what your read is of that opponant etc..
 
rcrocketman

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From the limited amount of information supplied here I would say YES you should have pushed preflop. This is player read dependant and also your table image, his stack size, etc.
A stack size of between 15 to 20 bigblinds is perfect for re-stealing by pushing allin.
His bet does seem suspect though because why would he overshove 3x pot if he did in fact have a big hand (wouldn't he want to get paid off?).
 
NBA2K10ROCKETS

NBA2K10ROCKETS

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Today I was in a tourney. I was in BB and got dealt JJ. I had about 20 BBs left, and the button raised to 3x BB, SB folds.
I thought about pushing all in right there, but I was about 200 people away from the money (10,000 people freeroll) so I decided to just call and see the flop first.

Flop comes QK8. I check, and the button raises me all in. It was possible that he had hit a Q or K, but I also thought he was just trying to run me over (he was big stacked). But I couldn't bring myself to call and folded. I ended up finishing 16 people from the money.

I should have gone for broke and shoved it all in preflop, right? Finishing 500th would only mean $1. I dunno what I was thinking.

I think you made the right call especially in a large tournament you dont want to make such a big move like that because in tournaments you main goal is to make it further in the tournament and that was a small lose if you think about what would happen if you lost that hand you opponent probably had a K Q.
 
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WiZZiM

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He was in the BB.

hehe thanks, i was having lunch when i read it

so this is an easy shove over, since the button range is usually quite wide, easy shove over, you dont want to make a call here OOP as you will have overcards on most flops, and you wont know what to do... reshove all in and laugh as he shows A 3 off suit.
to me a call could be the worst thing you could do in this spot.. anyone else have an opinion? i dont play much MTT, but it seems like a shove makes sense here.
 
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WiZZiM

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cause you have folding equity obv, so you could pick up chips without going to the flop, and your JJ should easily beat his button stealing range
 
spiderman637

spiderman637

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No, i disagree with your opinion and complete agree with ur action of folding JJ post flop....
It was 100% good move mate...
Cause ur outs of winning that hand were pretty low after the flop. U would have knocked out their itself...
And as fas as u getting knocked out just before the money places is not because of that hand, but it might be because of other hands which u might have played wrongly....
That JJ hand u played, was nothing wrong in ur action...
 
Rldetheflop

Rldetheflop

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post flop is definately a fold...pre-flop is a shove there IMO depending on table images of course.
 
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I made a move in a tourney 10 left 5 paid i got jj

Sick of waiting for final table I move all in

Big stack picks up AA

Goodbye me
 
trewtrew

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20BB with JJ vs Button raise = ALLIN
 
micalupagoo

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yup, i would have folded too, you didnt make the monmey,
but
probally lasted longer than losing with JJ-even preflop
i would not have gone all in!
 
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WiZZiM

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yeah but your 200 people off the money, its not like playing on the bubble....
if your not happy to get it in with JJ with a medium stack like that, then in my opinion you wont win too many MTT's

I wasnt saying push postflop, its an obv fold, what im saying is, take that postflop decision away and either fold preflop.. which is a little nitty, or push all in, and most likely take down the pot right there.
 
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WiZZiM

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No, i disagree with your opinion and complete agree with ur action of folding JJ post flop....
It was 100% good move mate...
Cause ur outs of winning that hand were pretty low after the flop. U would have knocked out their itself...
And as fas as u getting knocked out just before the money places is not because of that hand, but it might be because of other hands which u might have played wrongly....
That JJ hand u played, was nothing wrong in ur action...

i meant shove preflop, not post flop, its an obv fold.. and your left with 17bb's
 
PayMeh

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Personally I hate fish hooks. You have 3 pairs that can beat you and only 2 outs to improve your hand. I feel the same about pocket queens too. This goes double for freerolls since at any point you're likely to be called down with anything. The past 2 freerolls I placed in even close to the bubble there was one huge stack going all in on every hand daring people to risk the 3 or 4 hours they've invested for one hand.

You're better off playing JJ like you would pocket 8s. Pay as little as possible to see the flop then if you miss and there are overcards on the board fold fold fold. If this guy had been stealing your blinds consistantly every round and you felt confident he was raising with any two cards then you either fold preflop and let him keep control of the action or you reraise all in and put the pressure back on him preflop. Once the flop hit no matter if you lead out w/ a pot sized bet he was going to reraise you all in. In freerolls you're going to have bullies that make you gamble your whole stack without much information about where your hand stands if any. That's just the nature of the beast. Pick your spots well and exploit any weakness others show. Whether it's a check or a weak bet. People won't trap you that often because they simply don't have the skill level for the most part.

I still don't doubt that you were raised all-in with the villains hand being 52o or something of the sort, but he had position on you and controlled the betting. It's much better to be the one who puts people all-in than it is to be the one to call such a bet. When you can start thinking what your opponent is going to do the next round of betting is when you'll be able to minimize your losses and maximize your winnings.

Put in that position though you made a good fold. Chalk it up as trip mining for a premium price. The bad decision wasn't the fold. The fold was the good decision that stopped the bleeding. The bad decision was flat calling the preflop raise. Your only two decisions in that position should be shove or fold. 80% of the time a shove would have won you the blinds and the raise. You just have to be willing to accept the 20% of the time that you are called.
 
dantheman91

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That would be a tough decision. You just have to make a read on your opponent. Last night I played against one guy who, every single time, and I mean every single time would overbet the pot by 1.5 - 3 times the pot if he didn't have anything. I ended up knocking him out eventually because of that read on him. But, I think you would have to have a read like that on him to justify shoving on him after the flop.
 
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