Tournament Tactics - Float Play (Long)

Egon Towst

Egon Towst

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That ET guy is so lucky, can you believe it ? That bugger final tabled both of the Online Forum Challenge tournies last weekend. He must run like God. I bet you wish you had that kind of luck.

:hmmmm2: :hmmmm2: :hmmmm2:

Maybe. Maybe not. I have to admit that I do seem to be in a spell of positive variance right now, and my good hands are mostly holding up, 80/20s winning 80 per cent of the time, and so forth. I am no more proof against suckouts and beats than any other player.

But, if I do have something that some of our less experienced MTT players would also like to have, you won`t find it in the stars or the tea leaves. My edge comes from reading, from studying the game and from thinking about strategies and tactics. Let me share one of my thoughts with you:-





Tournament Tactics – Float Play



You have mastered the fundamentals of the game and arrived at a sufficient standard that you can routinely survive in tournaments. No longer are you out in the first hour (barring the occasional bad beat).

The next frustration comes when trying to amass chips in the middle game. Will you get to the money with an average or above-average stack and be a serious final-table contender, or will you scrape past the bubble and just about manage to make your buyin back ?

Maybe you can get there occasionally, when the deck hits you in the face, but that will rarely be enough to make you a consistent money earner. To do that, you need to make your own luck by using advanced tactics to wring extra value from marginal situations. One of those advanced tactics is the float play.

In outline, the float play is a multi-street bluff which involves calling an opponent`s pre-flop raise, calling his continuation bet on the flop, then betting to steal the pot from him, should he check the turn.

It isn`t as complicated as it sounds. An example may help make the principles clearer:

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 20/40 Blinds (9 handed)
MP1 (t1960) MP2 (t1880) MP3 (t1760) CO (t3610) Hero (Button) (t1525) SB (t1690) BB (t1940) UTG (t2040) UTG+1 (t1725)
Hero's M: 25.42
Preflop: Hero is Button with :qs4: :kc4: 3 folds, MP2 bets t120, 2 folds, Hero calls t120, 2 folds

With a solid hand in position, calling the raise is standard

Flop: (t300) :3h4: :7d4: :10s4: (2 players), MP2 bets t170, Hero calls t170

Missed the flop, but Villain`s bet of just over half the pot looks suspiciously like a standard continuation bet, lacking in conviction, so this is an ideal spot to float.

Turn: (t640) :10h4: (2 players), MP2 checks, Hero bets t440, 1 fold
Total pot: t640

Sure enough, Villain checks the turn. My bet is tough for him to call unless he has a ten and scares him out of the pot.


The purpose of the exercise is to take advantage of a common leak found in the games of very many MTT players. These days, many players understand the importance of making a continuation bet following a pre-flop raise, but few are sufficiently aggressive to fire the second barrel. (In other words, to make a second attempt at the pot with a weak hand after the first has failed.) They are therefore exploitable. Here is another example:


Merge Network No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 75/150 Blinds (9 handed)
UTG+1 (t3289) MP1 (t8730) MP2 (t3513) Hero (MP3) (t5005) CO (t4113) Button (t4026) SB (t9853) BB (t4225) UTG (t3984)
Hero's M: 22.24
Preflop: Hero is MP3 with :ac4: :qc4: 2 folds, MP1 bets t450, 1 fold, Hero calls t450, 4 folds
Flop: (t1125) :2d4: :10s4: :4h4: (2 players), MP1 bets t563, Hero calls t563
Turn: (t2251) :4c4: (2 players), MP1 checks, Hero bets t1126, 1 fold
Total pot: t2251

Notice that, even though this is a different game on a different network with different players, the pattern of play is very similar indeed to the first example.

Float play works most effectively when you have position on your opponent. It is possible to float out of position, but much more risky. When in position, your opponent`s check on the turn is your cue to claim the pot. Without that information, you do not know whether the turn card may have improved your opponent`s hand and, if it has, betting into him may be a costly mistake.

You will normally want to be heads-up against a single opponent in order to make this play. The presence of a second opponent in the hand would be risky, because it would double the likelihood that one of them will catch a piece of the board and will not fold to your bet.

Beware of making this play too often at the same table. As shown in the examples above, the pattern of betting is quite distinctive. An opponent who is familiar with this play may spot that you are floating and may trap you by checking the turn to induce your bluff when he does, in fact, have a genuine hand. Obviously, this could result in the loss of a considerable part of your stack.

In order to help counter the above difficulty and to keep opponents guessing, there is much to be said for sometimes (possibly one time in three or thereabouts) following the same betting pattern when you have in reality hit the flop. For instance, in the second example above, imagine that your hand were a pair of tens, so that the flop gave you top set, the current nuts. Your natural inclination might be to raise Villain`s flop bet in order to get more chips in the middle and maximise the value of your hand. If you flat-call instead, and then bet the turn, you may turn the tables on an opponent who puts you on a float and will not lay down his overpair. A single hand of this kind, particularly if it goes to showdown so that all can see your hole cards, will help greatly to give you the table image of a solid player and to dispel any suspicion that you are making deceptive plays.

Always bear in mind, however, that (as it says in my signature) there is little point in trying sophisticated tactics on weak or unobservant opponents. These examples all come from mid-stakes tournaments and similar moves may not succeed in (for example) freerolls or where the standard of play is poor.

Your target, in order to give your float play the maximum chance of success, should be a player who has a high c-bet percentage, but who has shown sufficient awareness to be able to fold a hand. As is the case with any kind of bluff, you cannot expect to succeed with this play against a calling station.

Also, do not attempt to float a player who is weak-tight. His c-bet will almost certainly indicate that he has genuinely hit the flop, and you will not succeed. To be successful in MTTs beyond the first hour or two, you must carefully monitor and make notes on your opponents and play the players, not just the cards.

When you identify a likely target, you can make the float play with any two cards. Since you plan to take the pot on the turn and do not intend to go to a showdown, the strength of your hand is not particularly relevant. However, my personal preference (as shown in the examples here) is usually to play with something that has outs, such as two high cards, a small pair, or connectors. That way, I have chances to make a genuine hand, should the opponent play back at me.

I will close with a final example. Here, I call a raise in position with a small pair and miss the flop, but I take the pot anyway by floating (this is a not uncommon scenario, and can help to make set-mining a more profitable tactic):


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em Tournament, 25/50 Blinds (8 handed)
MP1 (t2740) MP2 (t1540) Hero (CO) (t2610) Button (t1990) SB (t2125) BB (t4554) UTG (t1296) UTG+1 (t1875)
Hero's M: 34.80
Preflop: Hero is CO with :5h4: :5d4: 2 folds, MP1 bets t150, 1 fold, Hero calls t150, 3 folds
Flop: (t375) :2d4: :kh4: :4d4: (2 players), MP1 bets t175, Hero calls t175
Turn: (t725) :6s4: (2 players), MP1 checks, Hero bets t500, 1 fold
Total pot: t725


I am aware that this is a complex topic and, in my efforts to be reasonably brief, I may not have explained well. Please feel free to comment/question or post your own examples for discussion.

See you at the Final Table. :icon_thum
 
CAMurray

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These are the kind of threads that make this forum so valuable.

Thanks ET:adore:
 
atlantafalcons0

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Nice read, I enjoyed this.
 
cjatud2012

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:congrats::congrats::congrats::congrats::congrats::congrats::congrats::congrats::congrats::congrats:

Very well written, thanks for sharing this with us Egon.

One question for you, when you suspect that villain is c-betting and hasn't connected with the flop, what factors would make you want to float rather than raise the flop right away?
 
WVHillbilly

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How does stack size play into your floating? I mean this is fairly standard stuff in nl cash games but our effective stacks are generally much deeper so I was just wondering at what effective stack size do you think floating is no longer an option? Also what flop textures if any do you find best/worst for floating?
 
Egon Towst

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when you suspect that villain is c-betting and hasn't connected with the flop, what factors would make you want to float rather than raise the flop right away?

If I am reasonably confident that he has missed, I could equally well do either. The main reason for preferring the float would be that, if he checks the turn, this will give me additional confidence that my read is correct.

One reason to prefer to act on the flop would be if the the pre-flop raiser has position on me. In that case, if I feel he has missed, I will be likely to check-raise. Deferring my action until the turn has no benefit for me in this situation, because I must act first, and has the disadvantage of allowing the opponent another card.
 
Egon Towst

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How does stack size play into your floating?

Effective stack size (ie. the size of the smaller stack in play) needs to be sufficiently deep that the opponent will not be overly pot-committed and can sensibly fold.

To roughly quantify - assuming a standard raise of 3bb preflop, the pot will contain 7-8bb including the blinds after action finishes. On the flop, Villain can be expected to raise 4-5bb, and I will call, making the pot now 17bb approx. My turn bet will be around 11-12bb, and opponent will now be faced with calling that amount. I will want him to have 20bb or more left in front of him, so that he still has a fully playable stack should he elect to give up this pot. It follows, therefore, that the stacks at the start of the hand would ideally have been approx 40+bb.


Also what flop textures if any do you find best/worst for floating?

A flop which contains no card higher than a Jack is ideal, as there is less likelihood that the opponent will have made a big pair with his Ace, King, or Queen which he will be reluctant to lay down.

This is not an invariable rule, though. as witness the third of my three examples. It depends on your read as to how willing you feel the opponent will be to lay down a hand.
 
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WVHillbilly

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Thanks. One more question specifically about the last hand example you posted. What would you check back on the turn? I mean turning 55 into a bluff seems fine because our opponent has 6 outs almost always AND he may fold slightly better pairs but if you had TT there would you be checking behind and maybe trying to get another bet from your opponent on the river?
 
Egon Towst

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... if you had TT there would you be checking behind and maybe trying to get another bet from your opponent on the river?

I guess it would depend on reads, but probably not. The current pot increases my stack by almost a third if I take it, and that is a pretty good result. My tournament player`s mindset is that I am going to be at this table for five or six hours before the game is done and I prefer to take repeated modest gains to build my stack rather than to risk my tournament life unnecessarily by pushing my opponent into a big confrontation where I can`t be sure of being favourite.
 
8Michael3

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Thanks ET! I was using this play alot in the 2-11$ MTTs on stars with great success. I read it from Arnold Snyders book on fast tournaments but it applies equally to online. And this is a good reminder for me to use it again. ( I stopped sing it for a few weeks).

However, I did find that there seems to be days that these work and days they dont. In some games (even the FTOPs main event) I had 90% folds to a c bet!!!, and only got one double barrel when I tried this play. And other days I would get 20% folds to a c bet and I couldnt even pull the float once! Not player specific, not buyin specific, but DAY specific. Have you found this to be true for you? Some days everything you try works, and some days nothing works!
 
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Very informative thread and i appreciate the thought that went into it. I realize now that i've probably been floated more times than i'd like to admit. I also realize the value of firing a second and sometimes third shot at the pot (even if you miss) to prevent plays like this.
 
WVHillbilly

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Thanks. So is there any made hand less than TP that you would check behind on the turn? JJ? QQ?

Sorry if this is basic tourney 101 stuff but it's genuinely foreign to me because in a cash game I don't like turning a hand like TT into a bluff when we might be able to get some value on the river if we check the turn. I accept that tourney play is completely different but I'm just trying to gauge to what extent that's true.
 
arahel_jazz

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Well written.

The golden nugget in this entire strategy is "Float play works most effectively when you have position on your opponent. It is possible to float out of position, but much more risky. "

Position is everything in this strategy - otherwise, you run the risk of betting into your opponent that may actually have a hand on you.
 
Egon Towst

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Have you found this to be true for you? Some days everything you try works, and some days nothing works!

I think that is true of life in general, m8, not just poker. :laugh:


Thanks. So is there any made hand less than TP that you would check behind on the turn? JJ? QQ?

Sorry if this is basic tourney 101 stuff but it's genuinely foreign to me because in a cash game I don't like turning a hand like TT into a bluff when we might be able to get some value on the river if we check the turn. I accept that tourney play is completely different but I'm just trying to gauge to what extent that's true.

My preference would be the float with anything less than top pair but, if I have a decent mid pair, I would be likely to play it for additional value as you suggest perhaps one time in three, largely in the interests of balancing my range. Also, this latter play will be more likely to succeed where I feel my table image is tight, so that becomes a factor.

By the way, the key difference between Cash and MTT, in my opinion, is the fear factor. All MTT players are continuously aware that it only takes one error to trash all hopes of a positive outcome. This both forms and informs your own game and, conversely, can be used very effectively as a weapon against weak opponents, especially in the later stages.
 
B

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This is a very informative post. I have actually made this play a few times in my poker life and it also has been done to me quite a few times in my poker life. I have never read about this play but just made the moves by paying attention to the players.

I would say when I have made the play it was usually on a board with nothing higher than a 10. Have you found better success pulling this move on a draw heavy board as opposed to a non-draw heavy board?
 
KoRnholio

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it's genuinely foreign to me because in a cash game I don't like turning a hand like TT into a bluff when we might be able to get some value on the river if we check the turn. I accept that tourney play is completely different but I'm just trying to gauge to what extent that's true.

There's definitely still spots in tournaments where you are looking to use pot control with 1 pair hands to get max value and/or avoid losing more than you need to. It just happens a lot more in cash games due to the (usually) much deeper stacks.
 
Egon Towst

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I would say when I have made the play it was usually on a board with nothing higher than a 10. Have you found better success pulling this move on a draw heavy board as opposed to a non-draw heavy board?


I think the tendencies of the opponent are more important to success than the actual cards. Having said that, it definitely helps if the turn card happens to be a scare card, so that one can represent having hit a big hand. For example, in the first hand in my OP, when the :10h4: arrives on the turn and I bet, the opponent might easily consider, based on the play up to that point, that my hole cards could be Ace Ten, Jack Ten, or Ten Nine, which would be a monster.
 
fletchdad

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I am aware that this is a complex topic and, in my efforts to be reasonably brief, I may not have explained well. Please feel free to comment/question or post your own examples for discussion.

See you at the Final Table. :icon_thum


First in response to this statement^^^^, I feel it was explained very well. Thanks for a great post.

I have been using this a lot lately, in SnG as well as MTT. Since I play mainly smaller stakes, I find it works a lot better in mid to higher blind play, as the players remaining have a better chance of observing what I am doing as opposed to playing their cards only. And the number of informed but weak players greatly outweighs the stronger more experienced player at these stakes, so this is a very +EV move. There are a large number of what I call wysiwyg players, so that check on the turn is almost always a sign of weakness, and can be easily exploited.

When you do hit, say, hit your set on the turn, how are you going to get more value out of a scared villain?
 
belladonna05

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Easy to read and comprehend, what more could we ask for, thank you sir.:)
 
Egon Towst

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When you do hit, say, hit your set on the turn, how are you going to get more value out of a scared villain?


If you hit a monster, you might try checking the turn and then making a really large bet (pot size or larger, maybe all-in depending on stack sizes) on the river. A big river bet, especially if it doesn`t seem to follow logically after the turn action, can often be read as a bluff, an attempt to buy the pot. The opponent may be tempted to call with a fairly wide range.
 
kmixer

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What a truly awesome post.

In games I have played in, the villain has often fired the double barrel and even a triple barrel with as little as AK or Ax. Sometimes in these games it is hard to tell if they hit or if they are betting A high. How do we best combat this?
 
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natsgrampy

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Very well written! Easy to read and comprehend. I have been looking for something like this to help improve my mid-game play. I feel this will be a big help in catapulting me to the next level. I always seem to get close to the bubble with a below average stack and barely make my buyin back. I am going to try this and see how it works out.....Keep up the good work and Thanks for the help.
 
Egon Towst

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In games I have played in, the villain has often fired the double barrel and even a triple barrel with as little as AK or Ax. Sometimes in these games it is hard to tell if they hit or if they are betting A high. How do we best combat this?


If the opponent is that aggressive, wait until you hit a big hand yourself and then go to war with him for his stack. It won`t always work. Maniacs get dealt AA sometimes too, and you may be unlucky enough to pick the occasion when he really did have a hand, in which case you can only shrug and move on to the next tourney. There is no way to win them all.
 
KingCurtis

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Very nice thread sir.. I myself use this in my arsenal at times, and it is very effective against the right players. Hopefully everyone realizes this isn't a common play used a lot.
 
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