Tournament Short Stack - When are you ALL-IN?

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Medic48

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Folks,

I am wondering what the consensus is here regarding being short-stacked and going all-in in tournament play.

Do you all subscribe to the "You are all-in if you have less than 10 times the big blind"? Do you have a different play? What is your all-in hand when short stacked? or extremely shorted stacked?

Thanks,
--Phil
 
PershingSt

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IMO on most sites depending on structure , we should be looking to gamble around 8-12 bbs and below . I believe above that you can get away with some more creative play and don't have to rely on shoving . Our range for open shoving isnt static and can change depending on table conditions but to give ya a semi optimal idea of shove ranges depending on stack size , check out this guide from Jennifear on unexploitable shoving ranges . https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...U4YzVrSlBVZk5EMFE&hl=en_US&toomany=true#gid=3
 
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trent32la

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It really depends on the situation. For the most part, <14bb is when you should be in push/fold territory, however there will be spots where it makes more sense to open shove 15-20bb to avoid getting rejammed on and having to fold to resistance.

+1 to the link PershingSt posted, the jennifear push/fold chart is a great chart to learn from, even if you blindly follow it.
 
GODZZ

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I think Tbl conditions dictate when to shove and who to shove against. Also I would play a satty a lil more aggressively. G/L
 
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dudu10grande

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Much depends on the structure of the tournament , if it is in a turbo tournament with 10 big blinds down, it all straight in, but in tournaments with a quieter better structure gives go of push / fold.
 
victory22422

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For me its depends on stage of tourney, i go all-in with larger range on buble, becouse its easy to steell blinds. On the early levels i watch my position and play more tightly. Also there are a lot of push/fold charts in the internet, that depends on your stack.
 
TsUponU

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The all in with the short stack is a risky business. Depending on both the situation and blind structure it's always a gamble but one we have to make sometimes. I think the biggest mistake the short stackers make is going all in with poor hands. If you have 10x blind you can get still get some deals depending on ante's and blinds. I personally have been burned on a lot of all in's.

For instance just yesterday I had KQ suited and pushed from the cut off position all folds to steal the blinds, with the short stack not real short around 12x blind, I needed to build my stack quickly. The blind calls my 4x blind shove. He's Top Stack and has A10 OFF, ( I didn't now this yet) flop is QQA. I shove all in he calls then AJ come on turn and river. I'm out.

So I dislike the all in, it's a real gamble and should be avoided if at all possible. I still had enough chips to survive and if I saw the second A before the all in shove I might had survived to play another hand.
 
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joe777

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Only shove below 15bb with medium pair or high suited connector when you in position and there were not many players involve in the hand.
 
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NKGB13

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Well, It's simple to decide. If you're short stacked you can consider playing low pairs and low suited connectors more aggressively.

Shove or not, depends on how big are your opponents, your position [e.g A7o at the SB with 3 - 8 bb on your stack] why would you min raise? shove and pray.

But you have 11bb at the button, with AKs, you want more players, and you have the position to fold. min raise, or 3bbs raise, and let the others pay instead of having them folding. You need their chips and not them to fold.

My theory is this one, but offcourse it changes with the flop etc..
 
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hffjd2000

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It depends on msny things like structure, table dynamics, cards, etc.

For standard play though, If your m=<10, then surely your in danger zone or red zone.
 
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CallmeFloppy

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There is no real blanket statement but less than 10 big blinds is about as close as you will find.
 
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fragacoelho

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Gee Whiz!
Very nice!
Kill All my doubts about playing short stack.
It works for any type of structure?
 
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ph_il

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Yes, when you are at the 10BB range, you should be folding or looking for spots to shove it all in. 10BB still gives you enough fold equity for you to win pots with a 3 bet shove. However, you shouldn't be waiting to get down to 10BBs before you start making these plays.

I would say at around 25BBs, you should consider yourself getting close to the short-stack zone. Now, you don't necessarily need to be shoving 25BBs as often as you would 10BBs, but you should be looking for spots to steal blinds and to re-steal to keep your stack padded. A way I approach it is: If this is a spot where I would shove 10BBs, then I can (re)steal with a raise/3bet.

Another thing to consider in tournaments is when the blinds are going up. Lets say you have 20BBs at 100/200 or 4000 in chips and you're on the BB with AJs facing a raise from MP. If blinds are going up next hand and you fold, you're down to 13BBs and only a blind rotation from being in the fold/shove zone. So, you should consider shoving here for 20BBs and possibly picking up the pot uncontested or even doubling up before the next blind increase. Keep an eye out of when you're going to put into that zone and try to get your money in when you have a good hand to get to showdown with.
 
bprpm

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When i have 15 big blinds and somebody opens, i shove my 13/15 our 16 bb's with pairs, premium hand, pairs overs sixes, AQ, AJ .... when i have 7/8 bb's shove any ace, any good king, suited conecotrs with button... Try to choose good spots to shove...
 
TeUnit

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think this is a villan dependent question, sometimes you can steal with a min raise, sometimes a shove will work the best, and sometimes a limp stab is the most ev positive
 
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leandr0s

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getting under 10BBs is something you should avoid. at 15BBs you have reasonable fold equity. remember when shoving (with the exception of aces) you prefer not getting called even if you are ahead. because going all in with 70-30 (which is the good scenario) means that at some point you are getting badbeated. you prefer to grab the dead money already in the pot without taking your chances. so you should have something to threaten other players from chasing you aka reasonabl stack ...15-20BBs
 
rastapapolos

rastapapolos

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I'm in push fold mode when i have less than 15bb. when you're pushin you have fold equity.
last week i was playin an mtt, action folded to the button who have 10BB make it 2bb to go. small blinds folded. with antes in play, me in the big blind called with T7o. flop 89J. i cheked he jamed i called he got busted with KK.
same scenario if i had a weak ace and he open 2bb and i call. Ace on flop. since he has 8bb left can't push me away (no fold equity). but if he pushes ALLIN i'm foldin in the two spots
 
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KLDUFF1987

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when I am short stacked I mostly shove with any Ace type of hand. or any pair depending on reads ect, but each to their own I guess.
 
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