Tournament Rake and Structure

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ekgbeat

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Rake

As a percentage of the total for the prize pool. What is a good, reasonable, and horrible rake for tournaments? Example, $120 total buyin, $100 towards prize pool and $20 in rake: so 20% Rake

Structure

I know that this is very player dependent, but I thought it was worth asking. What type of stucture does everyone like to play (how fast the blinds increase, blind levels, starting stack)?
 
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ekgbeat

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Okay, where are all the tournament pros at? Is this just a bad questions? I welcome all trolls below, haha.
 
fiveohtwo502

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I think more than 10% is excessive. I used to just like turbo now I like them all. (I only like hyper turbo HU though!)

As far as structure you can throw late registration in and the variable changes as with reentry and R&A. For me I started preferring freezout formats and now I enjoy just about anything.

I think that like a lot of things, neither is good or bad just different... and adjustments must be made accordingly.
 
Kavaleits

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$20 of $120 is 16.6% rake.
Personally i prefer, both freezouts and R&A, but slower types blind increase and with bigger starting stack. Sometimes like to play something other kinds of poker games.
 
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Jacobalyrus

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Ya Kavaleits, have to agree with slower blind increase and deeper starting stack... Makes the game less about having to "know when to gamble" and more about getting to know the players and having the time to be patient and pick your spots...
 
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3ccasd

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on the major poker rooms rake 10%
 
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jjpregler

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In the lower stakes games the rake is extremely high in the casinos. A $100 game should have $10 rake at best, but it is common to see $15 or $20 rake for those lower games.

My experience is that the live games don't go down to 10% until the $500 level.

Additionally, in the lower games, the structures are quite fast. Typically 30 minutes is the longest you will find, generally on the East Coast where I play, they are 20 minute levels
 
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ekgbeat

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I think more than 10% is excessive. I used to just like turbo now I like them all. (I only like hyper turbo HU though!)

I would be interested in hearing some strategy on HU hyper turbos. From the consensuses below is that the fast blinds and shallow starting stakes make it more of a gamble than skill. I'm not saying that it is or isn't, but I would like your thoughts on that.

$20 of $120 is 16.6% rake.
Personally i prefer, both freezouts and R&A, but slower types blind increase and with bigger starting stack. Sometimes like to play something other kinds of poker games.

Haha, math is hard for me, and thanks for the percentage correction.

Ya Kavaleits, have to agree with slower blind increase and deeper starting stack... Makes the game less about having to "know when to gamble" and more about getting to know the players and having the time to be patient and pick your spots...

Thanks for the insight. I'm still trying to game select so it's good to see what is working.

on the major poker rooms rake 10%

Seems like 10% is the consensus. Thanks

In the lower stakes games the rake is extremely high in the casinos. A $100 game should have $10 rake at best, but it is common to see $15 or $20 rake for those lower games.

My experience is that the live games don't go down to 10% until the $500 level.

Additionally, in the lower games, the structures are quite fast. Typically 30 minutes is the longest you will find, generally on the East Coast where I play, they are 20 minute levels

Thank you for giving some insight to the live games. I guess they rake more since they have overhead cost the the online operators don't have. 15 to 20 percent seems extremely high for live games. The player pool would have to be impossibly bad for a good player to be profitable above the rake.

Are there any major live tournaments that you think are good value? Any good series wsop, WPT, EPT?
 
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jjpregler

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Are there any major live tournaments that you think are good value? Any good series WSOP, WPT, EPT?

Yes, any time the rake gets to 10% or less.

But even in the low stakes games they are beatable, but the rake makes it harder. For example in a $100 MTT with a $20 rake, if you are good enough you can average $200 return, but your ROI would only be 66%, which wouldtake a good while to build up a bankroll large enough to move up over $500. If the rake were only $10 instead, your ROI would be 81%. You lose 15% ROI just for the additional rake on an average to good return.

What also has to be taken into account in live games are the other costs of playing. Food, travel, and lodging should all count as costs of business, the same as rake.
 
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ekgbeat

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Yes, any time the rake gets to 10% or less.

But even in the low stakes games they are beatable, but the rake makes it harder. For example in a $100 MTT with a $20 rake, if you are good enough you can average $200 return, but your ROI would only be 66%, which wouldtake a good while to build up a bankroll large enough to move up over $500. If the rake were only $10 instead, your ROI would be 81%. You lose 15% ROI just for the additional rake on an average to good return.

What also has to be taken into account in live games are the other costs of playing. Food, travel, and lodging should all count as costs of business, the same as rake.

I guess you can count those as expenses if you are a professional gambler. Us rec players get hosed so I try to only play in local events. Where do you think some of the best live tournaments are?
 
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Parx has the deepstack events once a year and Harrah's hosts a WSOP circuit event in my area every year. If I feel like traveling and staying over for a weekend, I like to go to the Borgata in AC.
 
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ekgbeat

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Parx has the deepstack events once a year and Harrah's hosts a WSOP circuit event in my area every year. If I feel like traveling and staying over for a weekend, I like to go to the Borgata in AC.

Okay, thanks for the advice. I have heard good things about Borgata.
 
protuva35

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What happen whit turnament 100k,this turnament was last year?
 
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karl coakley

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Most of the "rake" for a tournament is a standard 10%. For example a 50+5 buy in (50 to the pool and 5 to the room). I personally have not seen a tournament that doesn't follow this structure (but I'm sure they are out there). The best buys are guaranteed tournaments that do not cover and getting into a Tournament via satellite. In those you get the best bang for your buck.
 
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ekgbeat

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The best buys are guaranteed tournaments that do not cover and getting into a Tournament via satellite. In those you get the best bang for your buck.

Are these live or online tournaments? Where or what site can you find these?
 
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