Tournament Bankroll Question

T

The Nuder

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I think I'm coming up to around 2 years playing online poker now. I've won literally dozens of tournaments. Biggest prize $580. (Would have been c$1400 except for power blackout).

This isn't a boast as I've only ever taken money out of my account once. I've just spent the rest on play. The more money I have in the account the looser I get. I know this is a discipline thing. But basically it means I'm a losing player - even though I final table and win tournaments (sometimes with several thousand players).

But I'm working out a strategy to become a winning player rather than a losing player - or a winning player who spunks his money when he's up.

I've noticed that I can play SnG and win on average about 5 out of 7 so it's a good way of building back a bankroll. But the thrill is really tournaments where I can win $1k up.

I can get buyins to these tournaments for $6 to $24.

So the strategy I'm thinking of is to have a number of rules for my poker play:

I can only dip below $25 bankroll for SnG play and I can't stake more than 10% of my bankroll in any one SnG.

If I enter a tournament it can't take me below the $25. Thus any tournament entry has to be earned first.

As soon as my bankroll gets above $125 I take the excess out down to $75.

This way even when I win my account stays lean and I'm not tempted to play so loose.

Theoretically I will become a winning player and can notch up the level at which I play as my consistency improves.

Any thoughts welcome.
 
sj_pi

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Many poker books refer to something as 'hourly expectation' to get to know how you are proceeding.

It(your BRM) should basically be treated like your business where you're the only entity in your business.

Just like how you yourself would know when to pay yourself.

An hourly expectation should be your indicator whether you're progressing or not.

Check out this link .

Various BRM strategies have been addressed there.

Mods/Admins, I'm not sure if I can post the link but please feel free to delete it if thats not permissible on this forum.
 
danprince10

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As a semi pro sng and mtt player, you're going to want at least 50 buy ins for whatever stake level your playing in for both mtts and sngs. I know for me that was never enough for me to not think about it as money and be completely comfortable with playing my A game and not caring about losing.

I practice the 100 buy in rule for both sit and goes and tournament, never putting more than 1% of my bankroll in play allows you to play very detached and just make the best poker decisions.

For you personally it may be 50, 100, 70, or 200 buyins. Whatever makes you comfortable enough to not think about the money.

Now if you truly can win 5 out of 7 (~70%) sit and goes you play in (I have my doubts) you would be absolutely printing money, your ROI would be through the roof and you should do absolutely nothing but grind those all day. Tournaments wouldn't even be worth your time. Like 70% at heads up or double or nothings would be absolutely crushing. Let alone 6 max or full ring.

If you played 10, 6 max sit and goes and won 70% at a 5 dollar buy in. For every 10 you played you would make 130 dollars. And that's assuming you don't 2nd place any of the ones you didn't win. So that's 13 dollars of profit per 5 dollar sit and go which is like a 250% roi. I don't think guys even had that during the poker boom.
 
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The Nuder

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I should have specified, the 5 out of 7 is on the 72c DoN on 888. So it yields around 130 odd c per winning game which means less than $2 profit per 7 games - so not exactly a money spinner but enough to rebuild a depleted bankroll for low stakes games with a bit of concentrated and diligent play.

The theory is if I run those rules I can enter whatever tournament I want up to c$100 buyin but then if I lose the money I still have $25 to build on - which might take a while - but I don't have to re-deposit.
 
tothbopo

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I know exactly what you are saying when br is raising I believe I can fly and I play loose and lose money.

I been thinking a lot about how to avoid it and it is getting better.

I try to play the same way now no matter how the last tournament ended.
 
JPoling

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I should have specified, the 5 out of 7 is on the 72c DoN on 888. So it yields around 130 odd c per winning game which means less than $2 profit per 7 games - so not exactly a money spinner but enough to rebuild a depleted bankroll for low stakes games with a bit of concentrated and diligent play.

The theory is if I run those rules I can enter whatever tournament I want up to c$100 buyin but then if I lose the money I still have $25 to build on - which might take a while - but I don't have to re-deposit.

Fair warning. Practice good BRM before bust. Just seeing you say "i can buy up to a $100 buy-in and have $25 to build on" what logic are we using here? I started with $5. Got my account to $161 off SnG/DoN/MTT and have a 82% ROI and i can not imagine just pissing it all away. Stay within your limits. Move up on DoNs. Dont waste time with those garbage DoN that are .72 when you have $125.Should be playing $2ish DoNs and SnGs and dropping limits if need to. Should probably be playing $1ish MTTs and occasional $2MTTs. That is if these are the things you like to play. Don't know if you dabble in cash games at all as well.
 
Larryvillain

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Tough beat on the power blackout. That was a big swing. Wow!
 
tARsh

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Ugh....
75-100 buyins for MTTs unless super low stakes and 15-20% payouts.
For STT SnGs I think 25-50 min buyins yes that many.
Variance will eat you alive and it is NOT worth the risk if you are trying to protect a fledgling or small BR. Grind grind play dbl or nothings or 6 mans.
Satty into some decent MTTs where and when your BR allows looking for a nice score yet still w.in your BR.
 
Samango

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I can get buyins to these tournaments for $6 to $24.

So the strategy I'm thinking of is to have a number of rules for my poker play:

I can only dip below $25 bankroll for SnG play and I can't stake more than 10% of my bankroll in any one SnG.

If I enter a tournament it can't take me below the $25. Thus any tournament entry has to be earned first.

As soon as my bankroll gets above $125 I take the excess out down to $75.

This way even when I win my account stays lean and I'm not tempted to play so loose.

Theoretically I will become a winning player and can notch up the level at which I play as my consistency improves.

Any thoughts welcome.
I understand that you think having a leaner BR will make you more disciplined but unfortunately this the wrong way to approach bankroll management.
As others here have said, you need a lot of buy-ins for your games in order to be protected against variance and to enable you to play efficiently without being 'scared money'
If you want to play tournaments with 1k prizes then you will need to have the buy-ins, and plenty of them.
danprince10 suggests 100 buy-ins. this is very conservative (i.e. not very risky) but for that very reason I would tend to agree with him.
If you are a losing player at the moment, you may need that buffer.
When you reach $125 dollars you should not be thinking of withdrawing but instead keep building your roll.
At $125 dollars you are only rolled for 25 $5 games. That is not enough and you shouldn't be playing them until your roll is bigger.
Understanding this relationship between your BR and the games that you can play may help to curb your tendencies to looseness.
After all, you say that 'the more money you have in your account, the looser you get' but you really you don't have enough roll to get loose with, you can't afford to play the $5 games yet.
Keep building your roll until you have $500, and now you can safely play the $5 games, — do you see though, that you still don't have enough money in your account to start getting loose because you are trying to build it up so that you can play the $24 games ($2400)
If you learn this relationship and then stick to good BRM, you will not burn your profits away, but will keep growing them.

Good Luck
 
Martinez

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Using sound BR is essential when trying to move up in stakes.
On the other hand, one of my friends plus what I have read in the books say that any money deposited on any site is money already spent.
Don't spend your house and bills money, only what you can afford to loose because at the beginning you will loose more than you win.
 
madsquirrel

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yes, this was tough for me to learn as well. first off I need to stay away from cash table games. I either do really really great or really really bad. I have learned to stick to tournaments because I tend to spend my money wisely there.
 
Bankroll Building - Bankroll Management
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