Three-betting

has 3 betting gone out the window? i find these days that the standard 3bet seems to always get called even when deep in a tourney for instance the blinds might be 500-1000 and you 3bet your 77s+ from mid position, for some reason you get 2 limpers and the sb and bb get involved because of the odds and i dont mean because they got big stacks! there tourney life is in danger also!! i,m thinking maybe going to the 4-5 bet range if there going to stay out of the pot either there unaware of the 3 bet or maybe there are just so many fish these days the standard 3 bet needs to be increased or am i getting it wrong?? opinions much appreciated gg,gl fellow pokerbuds...

I totally agree...

When I 3 bet I'm called all the time, it seems I have to bet 5-6 bet just to get people to fold, and even then I find people will still call or go over the top or try to bluff me to go all in even when they have mediocre hands. This happens more often to me in rebuy tournaments and that is why I have been staying away from such tournaments.

Lets play Poker

glad you agree pal and its not only that there tourney life is on the line its that they have very marginal calling hands i.e q9o or t8s ect.ect also to be playing that long in the game to not understand the 3bet! yeah i'll be opting for the 4-6bet from now on but will they stay away?? thanks for the reply gg,gl

I genuinely think there is more tournament equity to just flat call with medium to small pocket pairs and hope to flop your set. Players are just way more aggressive and less willing to fold. No reason to put your stack on the line in a flip when you can find much better spots. Negreanu seems to have perfected the small ball tourney strategy and I try to copy most of what he does. Poker VT is a great resource for tournament players imo.

Fish like to call with all hands so I tone down 3 bets to times when its only needed. Sometimes you 3 bet and some fish are glad to get it all in risking all tournament chips so I feel that 3 bet is not that useful in tournaments.

i tend to play conservatively in tournament. I would not 3 bet if there are many previous callers. I only 3 bet when there is only 1 or 2 players that I can isolate. pick your best spot.

I think we're getting our terminology confused here in this thread...'3-bet' is putting in a raise over another player's opening bet/raise. I think in this thread OP (& some others) are referring to a standard opening raise size of 3x bb.

Typically (in early levels) when putting in a raise over limpers you'd want to bet out ~3x bb + 1bb for each limper. So say if there's two limpers in ahead of you & you want to raise it up with AKo, you might want to raise it to 5x bb.


(maybe I'm the one who's misread this thread... but I think maybe not)

Yes I agree a 3 bet is fine against the blinds but with limpers ahead of you even a pot size bet to get your point across to the fish is not over doing it

But as Poker Orifice said the standard is 3x + 1-2x per caller before you

Poker Orifice said:

(maybe I'm the one who's misread this thread... but I think maybe not)

Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing. Either way you look at it, the problem still exists: too many players will call a bet of 3x the blind they have already payed preflop because "I already have the blind in, I need to defend it", and too many call a 3-bet because they are afraid of getting pushed around. It was always my understanding that you 3-bet with MONSTER hands. I think with the prevalence of donkeys on the internet, hands like KQ, KJ, A10 etc. have become hands that many think are worthy of calling a 3-bet. You can't use the 3-bet to get out b.s. hands anymore, so I rarely use it with strong Aces because you know you're getting a call regardless. Everybody is afraid of being bullied nowadays.

If you're talking about an actual 3 bet then I think a lot of the calling arises from the popularity of light 3-betting. People are 3-betting much lighter than they used to and to combat it, people are calling (and sometimes 4-betting) much lighter than they used to. There's also the possibility that the games you are playing are just full of fishy calling stations. make sure you know the difference between the two types of callers.

I do 3bet only when I see that my opponent is weak or when I got some nice cards on hand.
And about calling - If I raise and my opponent 3bets min, then I of course will call. If he 3bets more than minimum then in most of times I will fold.

i understand the what you are experiencing. yup it happens all the time. and for myself sometimes instead of 3 betting from middle position or utg i will limp and see what happens behind me maybe get a chance for a 4 bet and depending on the player or players left to make a play at an all in shove pre might be the play i will take. i guess for me its has to do with how i read ppl im against and numbers perceived for the estimated value. i guess every situation isn't the same though. hmm the power of position

Obv the table composition is very important. 3 betting recreational players just bloats pots and gets them attached to otherwise marginal hands they may fold on the flop and allow you to win uncontested pot after uncontested pot, I prefer to play many pots in position against your average passive players, At a table of tight aggressive players I think 3 betting is mandatory to ensure you get action on your monster hands

3x the bb is the standard raise but if you notice many are callers, you can increase it just to weed out opponents.

Just started another round of low-stakes online poker with a tiny deposit (getting some practice in for a Vegas trip coming up). The trend I am seeing is anytime someone gets 3-bet they just shove over the top. This is regardless of the size of the re-raise. I.E. villain raises to 3x the blind, you re-raise to 5x the blind, they shove for a total of 50x the blind. So beware if you 3-bet someone in a low stakes game, you're probably going to have to call their all-in, lol.

3 beting

If you have a raise and a reraise in front of you I would say uyou better habve a very good made hand or anb increrdable draw with mega outs to win., Otherwise fold all the time. yes there are donks and calling styations that can bloat a pot but all you need is one good player in the hand that knows what the dealk is and your busted

There are 2 conversations going on in this thread.

1 group of people is talking about being the first one to raise the pot for a "standard" 3x the BB. This is not a 3bet, but just a raise.

The other group is talking about re-raising somebody who already raised.
^^This^^ is actually a 3bet. Also known as Re-Raise.

YOU CANNOT 3 BET LIMPERS!!!! because you cannot "re-raise" when nobody has raised. So all these replies that advocate "limping along" instead of 3betting have their terminology confused.

Anyways....there are solutions to both dilemmas; whichever conversation you are having in this thread. Which basically come down to either "don't raise" or "raise more"

Any bets and raises you make should have a purpose. If the purpose of your raise is to thin the field, but then your raise NEVER accomplishes that goal then your raise is pointless. Either call along, or fold, or raise bigger but don't just keep doing the same thing and then wonder "why don't my raises ever work?"

Here is an example of the most pointless raise: 4 or 5 players limp and then the BB min raises. What on earth could possibly be the point of that raise? (I actually see that all the time). If you have a big hand, raise big. If you have a speculative hand, check your option and take a free flop. The min raise only builds a pot when you're out of position. Nobody who limped will fold to this raise as their hand is still the same, but now their pot odds are even better. If you have AA it is stupid. If you have 22 it is stupid. if you have AK it is stupid. if you have 78s it it stupid. There is literally not a single hand I can imagine where min raising a bunch of limpers serves any purpose whatsoever.

So....in short. Have a purpose for any raise you make. Are you bluffing? Are you value betting? Are you thinning the field? Are you isolating a weak player in position? Define your goal, and then develop a plan from there. Until you know what you are trying to achieve it's hard to evaluate your success....

All I can say is... Utilize position... You have a lot of people limping and calling anything, we need position if we are going into a multiway pot.

Especially at early-midstages of a tournament there is a lot of fish or even decent players going in with absolute trash trying to just accumulate chips.

Perhaps they are also using Position against you and also you have a leak of holding on too tight to your premium preflop openings and being exploited badly.


Best of luck.

This happens a lot in small tournament buy in. They call with loss hands and hopping to hit. A standard could be good since it could get them to call all the time and not hit anything, it can be profitable if you play it right. I'd you raise it too high then no one will call you. Not in a tournament anyway.

losties said:

This happens a lot in small tournament buy in. They call with loss hands and hopping to hit. A standard could be good since it could get them to call all the time and not hit anything, it can be profitable if you play it right. I'd you raise it too high then no one will call you. Not in a tournament anyway.

Click to expand...

Small tournament buy-ins... Everyones calling you lol and chances are if it's early in a tournament they are going to shove. and there will be callers lol

Why on earth are you raising? You have 77s, not AA or KK. You're not trying to 'protect' your hand from overcards. You want as many limpers as possible so someone or multiple players will stack off with TPTK or a bad draw when you hit your set.

From middle position and do better not to play map 77! I'm a late stage in a position to throw these cards! When you are confident in your hand, you better make 4 bet!

in rebuys people will call with nothing if the pot is big enough