Thoughts on agressive playing in rebuys

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ComplexPlaya

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To start of, I'm letting everyone know I'm by no means an expert poker player, so you can take this article with a grain of salt, if you like.

I believe I am however, on my way to becoming a winning player, and I wanted to share a perspective that appeared to me recently.

I play mostly ring games, but peppered with a rebuys and satelites daily. Now, we all know everyone is very loose in these re-buys, and the theory says there are two ways to approach them, being tight or being lose in the hope of building a sizable chip stack for the middle phase when the rebuy period is over. Therefor I don't want to touch on those aspects, only the psychological one.

For me, when I give in into the temptation of gambling in a rebuy or sat, because you can always rebuy - talking about less than premium hands here, such as QJs or 55 not 10 7 or something like that - then a few things start happening.

Firstly, I don't know about other players but when I get into gambling mode, and there is no going back. Surely, once the rebuys and addons are over, I tighten up quite a bit but it's impossible for me to switch off the gambling button I had on during the rebuy period and play the tight, solid game needed to reach the top.

Secondly - and this might be just my bad trait - I get frustrated on gambling a bunch of times and not winning, or getting alot of bad beats (which can happen more than normally since you're playing more hands) or simply because of the emotions that occur watching a showdown I'm involved in card by card multiple times. All this means I tend to be playing tilty and nervous.

Thirdly, and I've just realized this today, even if after I finish playing the rebuy/satelites I'm on the plus (and in general, I am +EV on these things) I feel worn out, tired and generally in a bad mindset to play poker right then - or anything that requires concentration. The kind of state you get after finishing an MTT that you've been in for 4,5,6 hours, only you haven't played that much this time and got more stressed.

In conclusion, I will definitely stop the rebuy gambling and play tight, even if my nature is of a LAG, it is -EV in these kinds of tourneys.

Thoughts from more experienced and/or winning tournament players are very welcome!
 
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volpereira

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I don't like the rebuys exactly because of this.

People plays very gambling and I always get on tilt.

Thats why my filters switch off the rebuys MTT's
 
dj11

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For me, I have found that the 2nd best way to do rebuys is very late registration, like very very late. This means the contest has been going on for nearly an hour. I then rebuy and add-on. This also means I have not gone nuts with rebuys. Last night I didn't play a hand until after the add-on period was over.

By this time, many of the remaining players are on tilt, about having nothing to show for the 14 rebuys they shelled out, and they are determined to 'get it back'. They are generally ripe for the pickings.

Another thing late registration helps me with is that 'gambling' issue OP describes. When I start on time, I also get the 'fever'. For me this has been -EV. When I start late, I have avoided the feeding frenzy, and the feverish panic that 'gambling' mode engenders.

I don't totally avoid rebuys. But I do put a rather strict limit on how much I can invest. Example is the $3+.30 rebuy, which mentally I consider a $10 tourney (with a lot of loose folks in it).

I should add here that as I remember it, I have done best in these contests when I either never rebought (great cards), or forgot to add-on (it happens). This forces a tightness that tends to do me well in these 'shit flying' fests.

Oh yeah, the 1st bestest approach to rebuys is probably to avoid them altogether, however;

Great overlay example (numbers are approximate)....

Last nights $3+.30 rebuy/add-on $40K guaranteed.

3500 original players, by the time I entered, there were 2200 active players. I figure I'm good for $10 (rounded numbers) by the time the add-on is over. So for my ten bucks, and 2200 players any normal $10 tourney would produce a prize pot of about $22K. But this was a $40K game, and the prize pot swelled to $45K at least (sorry, I never noticed what it actually got to).

This amounts to (in my mind) a money ($20K) added situation that is nearly astounding.

Had my KK held up against a junky hand last night I would have gone top 30. Unfortunately, I got Toyota'ed. (4 runners to a flush).
 
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ComplexPlaya

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Interesting replies. Though I don't see sitting late as an option. If I want to improve myself, I'll need the discipline to play only the +EV hands, and rebuys seem a great way to get that discipline...

Glad to know I'm not the only one with these symptoms !
 
SydTheCat

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For me, I have found that the 2nd best way to do rebuys is very late registration, like very very late. This means the contest has been going on for nearly an hour. I then rebuy and add-on. This also means I have not gone nuts with rebuys. Last night I didn't play a hand until after the add-on period was over.

I did exactly this in a $5 rebuy on PS. I joined ten minutes before rebuy was over, didn't play a hand. I did one rebuy and an addon. I played TA after the break and was among the leaders at one point. Had a decent finish.
 
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zek

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I don't play them often but when I do yes I go nuts and rebuy a few times looking to "hit".

I must drive the nits insane. The last DD on FTP I got most of my first 15 minute chips from a J4c beating KK and 99 all-in preflop.

I wouldn't play these if you are not expecting to invest several buyins trying to get a nice early stack and giving yourself a chance to go far.
 
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ph_il

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Whenever I do play a rebuy game (very rarely) I do like playing a bit more aggressive during the earlier rounds to try and double up or better quickly. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that playing aggressive and gamble is not the same thing.

So, even if I'm playing more aggressively than usual, I'm not necessarily gambling more with my hands. For example, I'm not going to shove 10/2o UTG and hope I double up or I wont call a 3 way all in with 9/3. 'Oh, if I hit and lose I can rebuy and try again'. You're just spewing chips/buy-ins and the few times you might win or nothing compared to how often you'll lose. That (to me) is more of a gambler's approach to the game.

When it comes to playing more aggressively, I might do things like 3-bet/shove with marginal hands like KJ or QJ, call a bit looser with suited cards, or gapped suited cards, shove on straight or flush draws. Play top pair aggressively, etc.
 
Poker Orifice

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Simple solution... don't play rebuys.
Rebuys are basically a deepstacked tournament that begins when the rebuy period is finished. One needs to acquire a decent stack in order to play them imo. If you're not able to change gears then whey even play them?
 
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only_bridge

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Changing gears is way more difficult than it sounds. But practise makes perfect.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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Simple solution... don't play rebuys.
Rebuys are basically a deepstacked tournament that begins when the rebuy period is finished. One needs to acquire a decent stack in order to play them imo. If you're not able to change gears then whey even play them?

Because giving up is not an option to me, just want to try till I get it right!
 
Western mail

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Intresting,just seen thisthread as a ive just registered for a rebuy tourney in a few mins.:rock: Cant wait for 6 way allins
 
Western mail

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Allin Preflop.

AA loses to KK
99 loses to j2

all good fun:)
 
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ComplexPlaya

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Well started applying the new strat today with immediate results. Won a sat to qualify for a tourney, 2nd place in another for a bit of cash, would've made the money in the MTT rebuy if I wasn't still a bit tilted from the last few days but it's ok. Much better!

And because of getting tilted with these rebuys the last 3 days, I've been losing alot on cash tables multi-tabling 20NL, but getting back now. So it affects every aspect of your game, not just the tourney you're in!
 
dwolfg

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There are no guaranteed winning strategies for any tournament type. Each tournament is unique because of specific, individual players, with their own strengths weaknesses and ways of thinking. There are general strategies based on what most people believe is the correct play in a certain game situation. However, what may be the correct play could be the worst thing you can do against someone with that different way of thinking/playing.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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There are no guaranteed winning strategies for any tournament type. Each tournament is unique because of specific, individual players, with their own strengths weaknesses and ways of thinking. There are general strategies based on what most people believe is the correct play in a certain game situation. However, what may be the correct play could be the worst thing you can do against someone with that different way of thinking/playing.

Maybe. But this article was about the psychological effects they have on me, and I'm sure many other. Which don't just affect the tourney itself, but put me on tilt for the next one or for the cash games.

After I changed things yesterday and ended my tilt streak, I won 650 euros mostly from tourneys, so it definitely can help...
 
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In terms of rebuy tourneys I would take my chances early but once you double up tighten up until the blinds get higher. You will get your chance to gamble once the blinds escalate. Here are some tips that will help any player.

Playing Position
Playing position is one of the most important skills in tournament play. The reason that position is so important is that in order to be successful in tournaments you have to play more hands than you would normally play to not become a victim of the blinds. This doesn't mean that you have to play completely lose and get in every hand. Put simply you have to pick your spots and position play will help you do that. The example of this is let's say the blinds at 50-100 and a raise is made to 300 and your position has you last to act. Your cards are nine and 10 of diamonds which against the raise out of position should be folded. But in this position you can call 200 more chips in play this hand because there is no one in position to raise behind you. You would then make your decision on whether to go on based on the flop.

Changing Strategy
Follow the blinds. Play tight in the beginning of a tournament. How tight you should play depends on the structure of the tournament you are playing. When the blinds are low you can sit tight and wait for other players to make mistakes, but when the blinds begin to rise it is time go get in there and gamble. Play tight from early position with a lot of people to act behind you. Play aggressive from late position and try to steal blinds with semi-strong hands.



Emotions
Getting emotional leads to bad decisions. Plan to have at least one to 2 really bad beat per tournament. If someone bluffs you so what. You need to train yourself to look at your chip stack and not to lament your losses. Your end goal is to take all of the chips. You have a shot as long as you stay around and keep utilizing these skills. That player that bluffed you with an all in call will eventually pad your stack if they continue to play that way. Never ever play a hand against someone just because you are mad at them or the way they play, this will cause you to call them on mediocre hands and inevitably make you angrier when they take more chips from you.


Raising
In tournament play you typically get a lot more callers then in a cash game. This is because players do not value their chips as greatly as they would if they were real dollars. As well because of the blinds players are trying to play more hands. So is very important when you're on premium hands to raise significantly. So as an example the blinds are 100 200 and you are on pocket kings and I would suggest you raise a minimum of 700 to 800 to get rid of over valuers and position calls. Remember the more people in the hand the less likely your hand is to be successful.

Hope this helps.
 
moeraj

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Very good Ace. Only thing I disagree with is the early double up. Most rebuy tournies allow you to rebuy as soon as you drop below your starting stack so i would rebuy early instead and that way you double your stack without the risk. I know a lot of people will probably say to play aggressive early in rebuys just from what I've seen at the tables but i disagree with this practice. In my opinion there is never a good time to play carelessly.Everything else you said i agree 100%.Learning how to play table position and actually applying it at the tables is the first thing you can learn to do well to take your game to the next level.
 
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baudib1

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I have had quite a bit of success at rebuys:

1. The overlay you get in rebuys is just enormous. First of all, there are many people who will only buyin once...you see them wait patiently, then get it in preflop in a 3-way shove contest with AK, lose, and then quit the tournament. Huh?

Plus you get the all-in monkeys who rebuy 15 times and have the starting stack at the break.

2. Rebuys are very, very long, and there are tons of chips in play, so you have to be even more patient than usual. That said, if you're playing too tight in either part of the tournament you are missing spots to chip up. People play incorrectly in rebuys, gambling a bit too much early and then playing way too tight late.

3. If you get a huge stack early, by all means, do not gamble it away on marginal spots.
 
Steves22

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I don't like the rebuys exactly because of this.

People plays very gambling and I always get on tilt.

Thats why my filters switch off the rebuys MTT's

Right there with ya cannot stand rebuys and addons. favor the people who have more money instead of the better players. But let me tell you from personal experience, if you can win a R/A tournament without doing either once it is a great feeling and very profitable.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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I don't know, I guess I am doing something wrong because whenever I loosen up a bit after the rebuy period I get called, raised, killed. Oh well, practice and study, practice and study...
 
Kebo11K

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The first hour of rebuy tournys are the worst! Never know who has rebought or how many times, people just play crazy the whole time. And I would suggest never ever play unlimited rebuy people just plan go overboard with those!
 
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I dont normally play rebuys for that very reason,,too many are just determined to go all in with anything hoping to hit..On the few occasions I have played them,,micro or 1/2 dollar things,,i go in very very very tight..often tossing the winning hand because someone has put me all in..Now that being said..I have cashed a time or two on those,,w/o ever rebuying:):) This might not be a good way to play these..but i try not to rebuy at all...Only calling/shoving when im fairly sure i have the nutZ,,or at least a million outs:) I do take a small measure of satisfaction when i cash w/o a rebuy,,gl to ya
 
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