Taking risks on the bubble

On the bubble, my play is either too tight or I take risks that feel unnecessary in retrospect. It's so frustrating! I just bubbled out where, up to that point, I had played very evenly and felt good about it. Tight and loose in the appropriate situations.

There is a different perspective to have on a hand on the bubble, right? In that situation, are there times when it seems that the way you might play the hand at any other time just doesn't make sense to do on the bubble?

Yep on the bubble, special rules apply.

I wouldnt feel too bad about making that misstake on the bubble if I was you. In poker you will make a 1000 costly misstakes, and then a 1000 more.

The biggest mistake near the bubble that I see people make is when a mid to even large stack(but not the biggest stack) tangles with a larger stack and overplays a marginal hand in a marginal situation and finds themselves on the rail when in 2 or 3 more eliminations you'd have made the money. Near the money theirs a pecking order of sorts....HUGE stacks pick on MID-sized stacks(and little stacks btw) and MID-sized stacks need to stick to picking on small stacks. Just like in school...pick on only the ones that are smaller than you. LMAO!!!

Bubble play really depends on the type of bubble you're facing and the stack dynamics of the table.

For example: If we're in an event with 6k players or something and are on the bubble...we really shouldn't care either way about making the money or not, since our goal is to get top 3-4 rather than sneak into the money.

Yes the way you play hands can possibly be altered by the bubble situation, but usually only if your stack falls into the categories of "way above average" or "way below average".

P.S. I obviously don't know the difference between the proper usage of the words there's and theirs. LOL

Ugh. And that's why I'm frustrated. I was middle stack...maybe 15 blinds with two very short stacks...just 4-7 blinds left and one big stack who had me covered. I feel certain I could have waited the small guys out. The hand looked good, though...and, in fact, the big stack did river and I think I played it well....except that I played it on the bubble!

PNJs dad, it was about tangling with someone bigger. And I'm wondering if I should have been tangling at all.

I did have it in the back of my mind that if I didn't play anything I was going to end up in the money but struggling to win it. I wanted to be poised to win so I took a chance with what looked like a good hand. I just don't know that it was really necessary, though.

PNJs_dad said:

P.S. I obviously don't know the difference between the proper usage of the words there's and theirs. LOL

Click to expand...

Don't you just love a typo like that.

Bwammo said:

Bubble play really depends on the type of bubble you're facing and the stack dynamics of the table.

For example: If we're in an event with 6k players or something and are on the bubble...we really shouldn't care either way about making the money or not, since our goal is to get top 3-4 rather than sneak into the money.

Yes the way you play hands can possibly be altered by the bubble situation, but usually only if your stack falls into the categories of "way above average" or "way below average".

Click to expand...

I disagree with about every one of the above statements...you'll lose alot of money by not caring "either way" about making the money or not. If your only goal is to finish top 4 in a tourney then you must be disappointed...ALOT. Yes you should ultimately play your best and play to win. But near the bubble not caring is terrible. Yes the bubble alters the way you play. Bigger stacks as I stated before can afford to play a little looser than smaller ones cause in any one hand they can be KO'D. The only time I can think of that the big stacks should "care" less about picking on the small stacks is when the prize for everyone that makes the money is the same. Like a satellite to a bigger tourney or something.

On the bubble always avoid playing against the biggest stack (unless premium hands off course). You have to see if people are playing tight or loose, as, if they have a tight style you have to mess with the shortstacks as they will only push with premium hands and you´re always very likely to steal the blinds. If is a loose table even in the bubble...then just sit back, and wait for them to eliminate themselves

GL

it depends what the payout structure is but usually we don't care about the bubble in MTTs. SNGs are different.

It was single table...I should have mentioned that. I posted the hand in the hand analysis section if anyone cares to take a look.

in single-table structures playing the bubble is everything, you have to study the situations pretty carefully and know what to do in each situation and/or invest in SitnGo Wiz or similar program.

Bwammo said:

Bubble play really depends on the type of bubble you're facing and the stack dynamics of the table.

For example: If we're in an event with 6k players or something and are on the bubble...we really shouldn't care either way about making the money or not, since our goal is to get top 3-4 rather than sneak into the money.

Yes the way you play hands can possibly be altered by the bubble situation, but usually only if your stack falls into the categories of "way above average" or "way below average".

Click to expand...

PNJs_dad said:

I disagree with about every one of the above statements...you'll lose alot of money by not caring "either way" about making the money or not. If your only goal is to finish top 4 in a tourney then you must be disappointed...ALOT. Yes you should ultimately play your best and play to win. But near the bubble not caring is terrible. Yes the bubble alters the way you play. Bigger stacks as I stated before can afford to play a little looser than smaller ones cause in any one hand they can be KO'D. The only time I can think of that the big stacks should "care" less about picking on the small stacks is when the prize for everyone that makes the money is the same. Like a satellite to a bigger tourney or something.

Click to expand...

Sounds like you totally missed the bolded parts of what he said.

I have watched him play enough and trust me when he has a big stack near the bubble (or any other time for that matter lol) those small stacks don't want to be on his table at all.

The point he is making is that when you play in an MTT your primary goal from the start is to end up in about the top 4. Even when you don't get that far you will find yourself getting much further on a consistent basis if that is your goal vs having just making the money as your goal.

I have been both places. Before Bwammo started coaching me I had 1 final table in 4-5 years - and a lot of min cashes. Yep - I doubled my money enough to keep from going absolutely dead broke but never had a profit.

Since he started coaching me and my mindset has changed I have had several final tables and 2 huge cashes. (that is all within the past several months). And to make things even better - I have much fewer minimum cashes - and a whole lot more middle-late cashes.

So I think he has a good point.....

Lilli3 said:

It was single table...I should have mentioned that. I posted the hand in the hand analysis section if anyone cares to take a look.

Click to expand...

That changes everything lol. In a single table game your first goal is 3rd then your next goal is 1st. There are definitely times you will play a hand differently when you are on the bubble - but your question is too general to answer.

If you will post some bubble hands in tournament hand analysis we can make sure some of our good sng players take a look at them for you.

baudib1 said:

in single-table structures playing the bubble is everything, you have to study the situations pretty carefully and know what to do in each situation and/or invest in SitnGo Wiz or similar program.

Click to expand...

I need to check out SNG Wiz. I'm seeing it referred to frequently but didn't understand that it helps analyze situations like this.


The hand is posted in the hand analysis section. Much of the feedback is that I should have shoved all in which seems to indicate it was a risk worth taking. So I'm feeling a little more comfortable with the situation but not wholly convinced.

Yes, you gotta be aggressive.
Steal from shorttie's who want to make it in the money!
8)

As already said, bubble play depends on the tournament type. A "go for 3rd" approach is appropriate in a 1 table SnG because 60% of the prize pool is paid out when you get to 3rd. 0-60% is a HUGE jump and vitally important. Contrast that with larger tournaments where ITM pays more like 20-35% of the total prize pool and that value doesn't increase very quickly until the final places. In those your goal should be something like top 3-4 because the return on getting ITM is much smaller and to get a larger share of the prize pool you have to get much further.

The total prize pool allocated to each place should be carefully evaluated to help determine how vital getting in the money is vs. taking a top spot.

Bubble for STT or MTT?

The two strategies are very different-- and is much more important in the former imo than in the latter (still important, but your $EV isn't affected nearly as much).