Take Advantage of Another Players Mistake?

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ssbn743

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I’m in a live $260 buy-in NL hold ‘em event that is one of the events of the CPC (Colorado Poker Championship – A locally run tournament). Starting stacks were $30K with blinds starting at $50/$100 with standard wsop Circuit, 30 minute levels.

We’re about 5 hours in, and after I took a brutal beat with JJ I had built my stack back up to about $70K and was among the big stacks at the table, the leader had just under $100K.

I am in the cutoff with :as4: :3s4:

To my immediate right is the $100K stack that is controlled by one of the best players in the room.

To my left, on the dealer button, is a semi-regular player that is hyper aggressive but takes it too far and often times looks really dumb with some of the stuff he does. Already in this tournament his stack had been as high as $80K then back down to $20K, back up to $70K, before finally being about $48K for this hand.

Now I know the hyper-active player to my left is not going to fold his button for nearly anything; for that reason alone, normally I would fold A3 pre-flop, however…

The blinds were $600/$1200/$200 the previous hand and had just gone up to $800/$1600/$200. The player to my right open raises with a single $5K chip and verbally declares $2600. The dealer immediately made the correction and informed the table that the wager was $3200.

This player is a very good player and I’m sure that from late position his range is much wider; however, he was visibly upset that he made that mistake (something we all have done I’m sure) and I had to give him credit for a hand better than A3; not the much of his range protrudes beneath A3 anyway. Nonetheless, I felt that I had to take advantage of his mistake and flat called the $3200 with plans to re-evaluate the flop.

I knew the button would call, but both of the blinds were thinking along the same line as I and each called the $3200 as well.

Pot: $14,600

Flop: :ac4: :4s4: :9s4:

The player to my right was first to act and reluctantly checked. I was pretty sure at this point he had JJ or QQ, maybe even KK. I led out and bet this flop with a good draw and what could be the best hand outright; I bet $8K. I am called by the hyper aggressive button and everyone else folds.

Pot: $30,600

Turn :5c4:

Short of a spade, that’s a good card for my hand. It’s also a good card for my opponents range. He could have Ax but more likely something like K9, or Q4 – both of which he had played several times that day alone. I probably still have the best hand and even if I am up against Ax I believe I have the fold equity to play this hand optimally.

I move all-in after the turn, because I know that any check line I chose gives me zero fold equity. My all-in has him covered by over $20K. He agonizes over his decision for a while, during which I had to change my read to Ax since I don’t think K9 or Q4 would make him think so long; he finally calls all-in and shows :ah4: :js4:

Pot: $100,600

River: :kc4:

“YES, YES, YES, I KNEW IT” is what I had to listen to after that river card fell. The open raiser then said he had QQ and congratulated him on hitting a nice “two-outer”.

Now he actually had a better hand than mine from the start, but he certainly didn’t need it; he was calling from his button regardless. It is for this reason that I would normally fold a weak hand like A3 pre flop here. I felt that I need to try to take advantage of a very good player’s error and ended up losing over 70% of my chips.

When I stopped to think about it, if he made it $2600 with a $1200 Big Blind then it stands to reason he would have made it $3400 with a $1600 Big Blind if he hadn’t made a mistake; so what was I trying to take advantage of; a $200 chip error?

Then again, to win a tournament you have to pounce on situations like this, maybe this isn’t a very good example. I don’t really know what else I could have done, maybe 3-bet or fold pre, but I think the button would have called a 3-bet anyway – he had been flat calling 3-bets out of position all day long, so in position he’s certainly calling and we would have ended up in the same spot.

I don’t know, I wish I had just folded pre-flop like I would often; thoughts?
 
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4evertilted

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Not much you can do about this hand, he happen to wake with a hand, just poker. But i would rather play stronger hands vrs a calling station...
 
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baudib1

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OP is so tilting. Tempted to just chalk it up as CSB but some comments:

1. I'm not sure how the "mistake" by PFR is supposed to affect your decision here. If you're calling $3200 why would you not call $3400? If PFR is solid then 3-bet or fold. If your read is he has a monster hand then fold.

2. If BTN is hyper aggressive and you're going to get squeezed a ton and PFR has a monster, what are you doing in the hand? Although I tend to doubt the hyper-aggressive description here because BTN played this hand pretty damn passively.

3. As played hand seems basically fine, not sure what else you're supposed to do here once you call preflop.
 
MediaBLITZ

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This is why A-rag (suited or not) is considered a trouble hand: you get a flop that's almost as good as you could hope for and all it accomplishes is getting you into big trouble (as perfectly described by OP).
 
MTCashman

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Yeah its hard to give him credit, he builds that image and sometimes he will get paid off when he actually has a hand, tough luck man
 
scorpion1367

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Personally I see hands like suited ace rag as speculative hands,, yes its nice to hit the ace but with a garbage kicker it is hard to know where your at after the flop.What your looking for is the nut flush out of that hand imo if you do not hit then you have to be prepared to let it go.That being said you did not play this hand badly being that you had a flush draw after the flop, the all in jam may have been a bit of an over play because in that situation imo you were only getting called by better.With the read you had on your opponent it was still a good play.Better luck next time......scorp
 
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ssbn743

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OP is so tilting. Tempted to just chalk it up as CSB but some comments:

1. I'm not sure how the "mistake" by PFR is supposed to affect your decision here. If you're calling $3200 why would you not call $3400? If PFR is solid then 3-bet or fold. If your read is he has a monster hand then fold.

2. If BTN is hyper aggressive and you're going to get squeezed a ton and PFR has a monster, what are you doing in the hand? Although I tend to doubt the hyper-aggressive description here because BTN played this hand pretty damn passively.

3. As played hand seems basically fine, not sure what else you're supposed to do here once you call preflop.

1. After I really thought about it my reasoning for calling here is terrible. However, I do this often, usually in lower limit games with an entirely different type of opponent. If someone meant to make it $4800, but screwed up and verbalized the wrong amount, I call in position with ATC simply to crack.

I also didn’t know he had a real hand until his flop check. When folded to in late position with the table chip lead his range is solid, but pretty large; he hadn’t open raised/checked all day and the way he said check, cheeckk - sigh, gave away a lot of information. By that point, however, I had already out flopped him and got myself into trouble. I was trying to spike huge and crack; and I chose the worst time to do it against probably the worst player to do it against. And then the hyper-active BTN is another factor to just fold and leave him to it.

2. You’re right, hyper aggressive is not what I meant – more like hyper-active. Raise/raise/raise/raise/oh you 3-bet, I call/oh you 4-bet, I call/and position is sooo overrated – all day long.

And the only reason I’m in the hand is to flop big cheaply and crack – but as it turns out it still wasn’t very cheap and my opponent would’ve have paid me off anyway.

3. I agree, and I really can’t believe the BTN called all-in, I thought I was golden with fold equity – there are a lot of hands that crush him here and all of them would have been played the same way against a player that won’t fold.

So I guess the question comes down to whether or not there is any merit or value to calling merely because you’re opponent made a mistake and you know he made a mistake?
 
dd_decker

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It comes down to playing the ace rag on a guess that you could take advantage of his mistake. You were basically correct but still it was to risky to play that hand on a guess. Had a deuce hit on the river you would have looked like a genius though! :eek:
 
NeverEnough

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This is why I fold ace rag 99% of the time.

I would not have shoved on the turn. Maybe bet half the pot to 2/3 of the pot.
 
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ricksterrick

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Unlucky the flush didn't get there.
 
PurgatoryD

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After I really thought about it my reasoning for calling here is terrible.

I agree. His mistake was a relatively minor one. And, more importantly, he's not the only one in the hand with you.

So I guess the question comes down to whether or not there is any merit or value to calling merely because you’re opponent made a mistake and you know he made a mistake?

Not when there are other players involved. Especially when you had such a good read on the button. You knew A-rag was going to get you into trouble.

I think it's OK to use others' mistakes, but don't overvalue those mistakes. In this case, I think you were just too focused on the wrong player. Aggro players that play after me always get my full attention! :)
 
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baudib1

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Minraising is a totally viable strategy and is hardly a mistake, especially if it encourages people to call too wide. I.e.:
I call in position with ATC simply to crack.
 
Arjonius

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So if the blinds hadn't changed and he opened for 2600, you would have folded? I can't come up with any strong line of reasoning where I want to call here because the opener didn't notice the blinds had gone up. Yes, it doesn't cost much since he was forced to min-bet. However, since I'm assuming the button will call, I won't have position.
 
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ssbn743

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Minraising is a totally viable strategy and is hardly a mistake, especially if it encourages people to call too wide. I.e.:

Yeah but this is not a player that meant to min raise – though his standard open raise is not a great deal larger than minimum. My strategy was to make him pay, plain and simple my cards were just a detail in my mind.

So if the blinds hadn't changed and he opened for 2600, you would have folded? I can't come up with any strong line of reasoning where I want to call here because the opener didn't notice the blinds had gone up. Yes, it doesn't cost much since he was forced to min-bet. However, since I'm assuming the button will call, I won't have position.

Right – and I wish I would have got that far in my thought process.

From my perspective it is, “oh he made a mistake and I’ve got to take advantage of that”. There was no consideration to how big of a mistake it really was or the fact that I most likely wouldn’t have position. It was simply a “get your money in there and make him pay for the mistake” thought process.

Obviously I seriously regret that now!
 
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