Swing or Bad Play??

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cosyglo

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Hi Everyone,
First post, need some help!

Im having a terrible couple of days, had about $25 my account and I've lost about 25/27 $1 SNG's. Im not sure if I'm really playing bad or if its just a swing.
Ive checked my stats and they haven't changed that much:
92 days, 6256 hands, VPIP 25%, PFR 16%, Post flop aggression freq. 55%. They seem solid enough to beat the $1 games, but I can't understand whats happening.

My general style is
Early/ 9 players- playing tight most of the way around, loosen a little near the button. Rarely limp, maybe with low pair, almost always raise 3BB with anything above AJs or so. If I hit or miss ill fire a cont bet of about 2/3, then if someone calls ill let it go.

Similar in middle/5-6 players, a little looser, out to A10 and above approx, depends on stack. I could maybe tighten up a small bit here but the blinds are usually 50-100,60-120 so i have to play a bit as I only have maybe 15BB.

And the lates aren't really relevant because i can't seem to get past 4th/5th

---------------


This hand basically sums it up.


Stacks:
???Cut-off - 2??? - Hero (T1,750)
UTG - UTG (T5,030)
CO - CO (T2,285)
SB - SB (T1,690)
BB - BB (T2,745)

Preflop: (T150, 5 players) Hero is ???Cut-off - 2??? with Ac Ts
Hero raises to T300, UTG calls T300, 3 folds

Flop: 9c Ks 7d (T750, 2 players - Hero: T1,450, UTG: T4,730)
Hero bets T500, UTG calls T500

Turn: 7s (T1,750, 2 players - Hero: T950, UTG: T4,230)
Hero checks, UTG bets T1,750, 1 fold, Uncalled bet of T1,750 returned to UTG

Total Pot: T1,750
UTG mucks

UTG wins T1,750


Thought I played it ok, could have picked it up after flop as he may not have had K. He must have done, but I seem to constantly come up against this kind of thing. :confused:

Any help greatly appreciated!
 
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Siminitt

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First off never limp regardless - you always want to be the aggressor.
Second study hard - read books, post more on forums etc and get advice coaching as and when you can.
Thirdly the hand in question your cbet is way to much. You get the exact same response if you bet 275 or maybe 250 he is never going to float you without decent equity.
 
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hffjd2000

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ABOVE: Raise bigger preflop but your bets on latter streets are fine.
If those things come up constantly as you said, how about trying to reverse it. Observe if your experiment works.
Good luck.
 
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cosyglo

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I started reading Secrets of SitnGos by Shaw and its helped a lot, ICM is playing a part now and I'm getting tighter overall, with more shoves later on rather than playing.
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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In general play tighter than tight early. try to maintain a starting stack, if you can chip up a little bit great.

You're really just trying to keep your stack intact so that it is maximum threatening when you come alive near the bubble.

generally you should open shove a fairly wide rage near the bubble- wider the closer you get to the button (1-2 players from money usually and blinds are pretty big compared to stacks). You typically won't have enough for a raise and a Cbet without being pot committed, and you don't want to give players a cheap chance to outflop you with OK hands they would have folded to a bigger bet.

playing SnGs is a completely different strategy than cash or even MTT so what might seem like a good strategy based on other stuff you've read, it is maybe not so good for SnG. SnG is all about leveraging your fold equity and taking well calculated risks.

shove a lot, but almost never call a shove. (obviously you can call a shove with your monsters). so what if they shove and you "think" you're ahead with your AJo...even if you're right, you're wrong to call. Both the caller and the shover lose tournament equity while those 2 players not in the hand gain equity by the clash.
 
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HollyMichelle13

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$25 and your playing $1 SNGs?

Adding to what missjacki said, please use bankroll management or don't complain about losing money.

100 Buy-ins is needed for your games - so $100

Good luck.
 
Arjonius

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$25 and your playing $1 SNGs?

Adding to what missjacki said, please use bankroll management or don't complain about losing money.

100 Buy-ins is needed for your games - so $100

Good luck.
Do you have a rationale for needing 100 BI when playing entry-level SNGs where the payout table is quite different from MTTs, and or are you just repeating what you've seen others say?
 
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rkj1927

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$25 and your playing $1 SNGs?

Adding to what missjacki said, please use bankroll management or don't complain about losing money.

100 Buy-ins is needed for your games - so $100

Good luck.
100 buy ins seems a bit excessive. From what I've read in books and websites 40 is about the norm for sit and go's?
 
Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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I think it's OK to play $1 SnGs with $25, but not $2 SnGs. Yes, ideally you'd have a bankroll of more like $50-$100....but sometimes our bankroll is just our bankroll and if we can't play the cheapest games, then what are we supposed to do? It's not gaining any interest just sitting around in your gaming account.

Also, I think the strictest bankroll management guidelines are really meant for professional players, or people who, for some reason can never scrounge up another bankroll again. (maybe their wife gave them an ultimatum or something)

For those of us who have jobs, and are learning, or recreational players or very serious amateurs with good jobs and expendable income. 100 buy ins is completely unnecessary. Sure, it'd be nice to have. But how is a talented amateur ever going to play in the wsop if they need 100 buy ins? Are you telling me all those players are supposed to have $100,000+ bankrolls?

I'm a person who spends $25 a week on coffee. I spend a few thousand a year on snowboarding and vacations. to me, playing an event that interests and excites me is a form of "vacation" and I don't follow the strictest bankroll requirements, and I do just fine.

That, combined with having backers and playing partners I've never had to dip back into my salary. I gave myself a $500 bankroll 6 years ago and I've never gone bust and I've played my way up to $500 events and a couple of $1,500 events per year. Does that mean my bankroll is $150,000? No, it does not. But, I assure you I am in relatively little danger of going bust. But if for some reason I did...I'd just sit out a couple months, re-read my poker books. Cut back on my coffee and shopping and massage budget and re-emerge a few months later fresh and determined and I'd start back at the $50 or $100 games.

Not all of us are aspiring pros.
 
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Jacki Burkhart

Jacki Burkhart

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also, I think your playing style and skill are factors in how big your bankroll needs to be.

if you are a LAG and not a world-class LAG, you'll need a pretty big bankroll.

if you are a talented TAG you'll get by with a smaller bankroll than the LAG, or a novice TAG.

When I started I was extremely tight and fairly passive. Not a great style, but it actually ran me pretty deep quite often because I was playing low buy in "donkey fest" events. Sure, I'd arrive at the final table with 8bbs....but I'd triple my money while learning the game. As time progressed I cashed less often but bigger cashes, so I needed a bigger bankroll to sustain me between hits. Then I got a couple of playing partners and it is now quite a rare event that we all bust out before the money.
 
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cosyglo

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Thanks for all the advice! Im improving a lot, playing tighter earlier and shoving a lot more around the bubble. Taken a lot of bad beats though, my trackers 'equity vs winnings' chart is painful reading. But I know thats just variance, and if i keep getting my money in ahead ill win long term. As for bankroll, I reloaded $25, and I'm sticking with 50c games to start, both to build up knowledge and hopefully bankroll
 
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cosyglo

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Getting hammered on all in equity, its the same pattern all the time, I shove, I'm usually a bit ahead ~60% or so, and I lose! Does this happen much to you all?
 

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cosyglo

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No Limit Hold'em Tournament T80/T160
Buy-in: $0.50 Sit & Go (Turbo)
full tilt poker
4 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com - Mac OS X hand history analysis and tracking

Stacks:
UTG - UTG (T2,840)
BTN - BTN (T7,720)
SB - SB (T2,185)
BB - Hero (T755)

Preflop: (T240, 4 players) Hero is BB with Ts 9h
1 fold, BTN calls T160, SB calls T80, Hero checks

Flop: 6c 2h Tc (T480, 3 players - SB: T2,025, Hero: T595, BTN: T7,560)
SB checks, Hero bets T595 (all-in), BTN calls T595, 1 fold

Turn: 9s (T1,670, 2 players - Hero: T0, BTN: T6,965)

River: 7d (T1,670, 2 players - Hero: T0, BTN: T6,965)

Total Pot: T1,670
Hero shows Ts 9h
BTN shows 8d 9c
Hero shows Ts 9h (two pair, Tens and Nines)
BTN shows 8d 9c (a straight, Ten high)

BTN wins T1,670


Any thoughts on this? 80% fav after flop, 92% after turn, then busted...
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

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I think it's OK to play $1 SnGs with $25, but not $2 SnGs. Yes, ideally you'd have a bankroll of more like $50-$100....but sometimes our bankroll is just our bankroll and if we can't play the cheapest games, then what are we supposed to do?
It didn't happen in this thread, but it's not uncommon for Chris Ferguson's name to surface when people advise players with small BRs to following strict BRM guidelines, just like they should with much larger BRs.

Ferguson's guidelines were very loose until his BR reached $50. For example, he played NL10 with first $2 he won in a freeroll; i.e. he played with his entire BR and bought in with only 20bb. The key point is that when his BR was tiny, he was fine with putting himself in a situation where he could lose his entire BR on one hand, which is what happened.

For MTTs, he had a 2% guideline, so 50 BI. But he excepted $2.50 and less. So again, while his BR was tiny, he was willing to use very loose BRM. He could play up to $2.50 even if his BR was only one BI.

Also, he couldn't increase his BR by adding money from his pocket. So his situation wasn't the same as someone who can.
 
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Siminitt

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No Limit Hold'em Tournament T80/T160
Buy-in: $0.50 Sit & Go (Turbo)
Full Tilt Poker
4 players
Formatted by pokercopilot.com - Mac OS X hand history analysis and tracking

Stacks:
UTG - UTG (T2,840)
BTN - BTN (T7,720)
SB - SB (T2,185)
BB - Hero (T755)

Preflop: (T240, 4 players) Hero is BB with Ts 9h
1 fold, BTN calls T160, SB calls T80, Hero checks

Flop: 6c 2h Tc (T480, 3 players - SB: T2,025, Hero: T595, BTN: T7,560)
SB checks, Hero bets T595 (all-in), BTN calls T595, 1 fold

Turn: 9s (T1,670, 2 players - Hero: T0, BTN: T6,965)

River: 7d (T1,670, 2 players - Hero: T0, BTN: T6,965)

Total Pot: T1,670
Hero shows Ts 9h
BTN shows 8d 9c
Hero shows Ts 9h (two pair, Tens and Nines)
BTN shows 8d 9c (a straight, Ten high)

BTN wins T1,670


Any thoughts on this? 80% fav after flop, 92% after turn, then busted...

Hand is standard.

Stop getting into preflop wars and where your equity will rarely be above 65%
this will improve your ev line.

Post flop poker is where the skill comes into play and where you can likely be shoving with higher equity vs perceived ranges.

Also $25 bank roll is absolutely fine to play $1sng people saying you need 100bi are jokers.
You will need more buyins as you progress through the stakes for eg.... having 25bi playing $100 games will be actually to little due this is due to skill factor (edge you may have being lower) etc.
It also depends on your volume you play.... If your serious about grinding and want to earn decent money and progress through the stakes you have to have a business model to follow and this is when $25 for $1 sng will not be correct - this is due to the fact that you will be playing more tables and whilst playing more should decrease your variance it will also mean you nee to have a larger bankroll to do this.

GL
 
el_magiciann

el_magiciann

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Good luck from me too in improving your results, i'm playing a lot of 1SNG's at FTP and i lose most of my hands when i'm 60 ahead pre or at the flop, and maybe i should start playing ring games to cover some losings....
 
eidikos

eidikos

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poker variance it called.i cant tell you if you were unlucky or if you played wrong.in this particular hand i think you played it wright.standard preflop raise witha good hand,standard c-bet post flop,good fold.i think he had something better than you there.

@cosyglo
thats the story of my life.lol
please tell me where you get this graph??
 
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