Surviving high blinds..

I have been reguarly playing tournaments lately, with an average size of around 300-500 people. i consistently make it through the first hour and am in the top 10-20% of the chip leaders. But at this point the blinds are nearing the 500-1k mark and this is where i start to just dwindle away to nothing.

For example, i just finished a tournament 162nd 1hr 50minutes in, by the first break and end of late registration i was sitting at 57k chips, putting me at 36th of ~380 players left. The blinds were soon at 600-1.2k, I was playing quite tight, although not on my own decision, i was just being dealt quite obsurdly bad cards for ~15minutes, at the point i was already down to ~45k chips and slipping.

Following this i had a few good hands pre-flop that turned to nothing on the flop, i would be bet into and forced to fold straight away. As usual there were some players stealing the blinds and raising roughly 2.5-3x to do so, and i was folding almost every hand while being eaten away by antes and blinds.

I soon found myself sitting at only 25k, and feeling very desperate for any action, i finally caught a hand JAo in late position, raised, then was re-raised all in, called, and was faced off against AKo, beaten by kicker. Now that's just normal 9handed poker chances and didn't shock me. But what has is the fact that i so consistently reach this point for the same reasons, and am struggling to fix it on my own.

Any advice on surviving, and play style tips during the times the blind's start to be a huge dent to your stack to call let alone raise is what i am after and i would greatly appreciate it. =]

"As usual there were some players stealing the blinds and raising roughly 2.5-3x to do so, and i was folding almost every hand while being eaten away by antes and blinds."

There's part of your answer - what are you doing to steal (or re-steal) blinds? You will not see the final table without it.
You must steal blinds to buy yourself another orbit to see more "free" hands.
In a nutshell you are making the classic mistake of tightening up to keep the chips you have, but by doing that you end up blinding out to the guys who are aggressively going after blinds. And they could very well be holding 46o. Just remember - it is impossible to keep the chips you have. If you are not collecting chips you are going backwards - there is no standing still.

Blinded Out

Hey bro,
Every cash that paid 200+ times my buy in here is what I did to combat this issue.
I went from being the victim to being the bully.
I think its the only way to get paid off in major event.
GL.

so do i just guess when im in late position and hope the small and big have nothing? or is their more to it?

lukyl1 said:

so do i just guess when im in late position and hope the small and big have nothing? or is their more to it?

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What Media posted is good.
Learn to steal from late position when the blinds become signifigant. Favorite positions to steal is from SB, BTN, CO , HJ ...with no one acting before your turn its a free pass to raise 2.5-3x BB. Sometime small or big might have something but the number of steals out number of times you will be reraise .

Steal more, re-steal more.

should i wait for a somewhat decent hand to do it? or just completely wing it.

Keep in mind your CPR (CHIPS PER ROUND), this tell you how many chips you spend each orbit, tally the blind and antes to figure your CPR. ex 8 handed blinds 500/1000 100 ante CPR=2300. Second know your CSI (Chip Status Index) this is your chip status divided by your CPR. ex Above CPR and you have 30,000 chips CSI= about 13. You need to be award of this as tourney progresses, when your CSI gets low you need to start shoving more and taking down blinds, getting it in with live hands. When your CSI is 10-20 range you need to keep steeling blinds and letting ppl know you will not get pushed around. if someone raises your button constantly shove with medium PP or a couple face cards. Don't let ppl steal your blinds, that is what you need to do to stay alive. Once you get over 20 CSI you have more room to play but still keep in mind blind stealing and keep putting pressure on ppl, never enter a pot limping unless your a blind. Always raise or reraise to enter pot, must make other ppl guess, take pressure off of yourself and apply it to opponent.

Nah just do it fairly wide, suited connecters, 1 gappers etc are brilliant for stealing with.

'it depends' (seriously).
Without knowing table dynamics & w/o knowing how you're playing the hands you do play, it's impossible to give you anything but a really vague response.. that'll have little value imo.

Raise 2x-2.2x not 2.5x-3x

Raise a lot more

chips you can win are worth more than ones you can lose

resteal vs. late-position openers

Keep in mind your CPR (CHIPS PER ROUND), this tell you how many chips you spend each orbit, tally the blind and antes to figure your CPR. ex 8 handed blinds 500/1000 100 ante CPR=2300. Second know your CSI (Chip Status Index) this is your chip status divided by your CPR. ex Above CPR and you have 30,000 chips CSI= about 13.

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sigh.....I'm getting old. What happened to 'M value'.

Vollycat said:

sigh.....I'm getting old. What happened to 'M value'.

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M value = stack/(blinds+ antes)

This is the forumla flatcaller has wrote for CSI (which I have never heard of either). From what I can gather CSI = M

Read Kill Everyone and Arnold Snyder, people.

If you're <2 hours in and blinds are that high, I assume you're playing turbos? Nothing wrong with that, but it certainly amplifies the aggressiveness with which you will need to steal blinds -- with 5 minute levels, you may be jumping 2 levels by the time you are again in late position.

Your style of playing more patiently may be more suited to regular-speed tournaments. You will still need to find stealing spots, to be sure, but you will also find more opportunities to build a stack before the pressure gets too high...

baudib1 said:

Raise 2x-2.2x not 2.5x-3x

Raise a lot more

chips you can win are worth more than ones you can lose

resteal vs. late-position openers

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Why do you say to raise it 2x and 2.2x, i am guessing it's if the BB/SB resteal's you don't lose alot of chips?
Tho i have been raising 2xBB and it does work good, if i 3x it i get callers.


To OP
Like everyone else said, you need to be stealing more, i found out the hard way. The same thing will happen in SNG's esp turbos.

to get called by a wider range and to make cbets less expensive

2 BB pre, 1 BB, 1 BB, 1 BB is standard in a lot of late tourneys.

Poker Orifice said:

'it depends' (seriously).
Without knowing table dynamics & w/o knowing how you're playing the hands you do play, it's impossible to give you anything but a really vague response.. that'll have little value imo.

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Best answer IMO.

Thanks, really appreciate the feedback. =]

baudib1 said:

Read Kill Everyone and Arnold Snyder, people.

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Iv read Snyders books, what is kill everyone like?

Key points for blind stealing:
1. Remember you're doing it to take the blinds, so bet as much as you need and no more. Sometimes 2x will do it, sometimes 2.5x sometimes 3x. Generally, when stacks are smaller (like in a turbo) smaller raises will do the job.
2. The cards aren't usually the most important factor in whether or not to steal. Look at your position, your image, the style of the players left to act (obviously, tight-passive are best), your stack and theirs. If they're likely to be 3-bet shoving a lot, you need to consider whether a steal is correct. Medium stacks are the best to steal from. You know this yourself, because as a medium stack you admit you play passively and try to maintain the chips you have.
3. Your stack size is important. With 16+ bbs you usually have enough to be stealing, but less than that you want to be finding spots to resteal or 3 bet shove, so when an aggressive player raises in late position, be prepared to shove over their raise with a wide range. Sometimes it doesn't work, but it is +EV to do so, because this gives you a chance to go for a run at the big money at the top instead of occasional min cashes. With 10-12 bbs, you can just be shoving wider in these late positions to steal the blinds.

thanks JB, clear advice =]

JohnBoyWWFC said:

Key points for blind stealing:
1. Remember you're doing it to take the blinds, so bet as much as you need and no more. Sometimes 2x will do it, sometimes 2.5x sometimes 3x. Generally, when stacks are smaller (like in a turbo) smaller raises will do the job.
2. The cards aren't usually the most important factor in whether or not to steal. Look at your position, your image, the style of the players left to act (obviously, tight-passive are best), your stack and theirs. If they're likely to be 3-bet shoving a lot, you need to consider whether a steal is correct. Medium stacks are the best to steal from. You know this yourself, because as a medium stack you admit you play passively and try to maintain the chips you have.
3. Your stack size is important. With 16+ bbs you usually have enough to be stealing, but less than that you want to be finding spots to resteal or 3 bet shove, so when an aggressive player raises in late position, be prepared to shove over their raise with a wide range. Sometimes it doesn't work, but it is +EV to do so, because this gives you a chance to go for a run at the big money at the top instead of occasional min cashes. With 10-12 bbs, you can just be shoving wider in these late positions to steal the blinds.

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Honestly this just made more sense to me then anything I've ever read before on the topic. When faced with an aggressive player raising in late position w/ me in the SB or BB, I've mostly made lay downs late in tournys due to me playing tight-passive and thinking it was the best choice in protecting my stack. But this form of play actually makes the most sense. Thanks for posting

in this phase blind steal is most important and to be rdy to risk with good cards if somone re rase you to go all in. Also in this phase luck is needed most...
And if is there something i hate in poker thats it, at final tables blinds are so big that you rlly cant play its al on push or fold so game on final tables is kinda ruined :/ soooo much depend on luck :/