Stupid Theory?

Ok so I was thinking about this whole limping huge hands situation, which I never do. But I was thinking of a reverse type thinking to it.

Ok so the reason many people do this trap is because they want some action or atleast want to play a hand with there AA or KK and not let it get walked with no action. The only thing is, is that when someone finally does raise the monster limper usually comes right over the top with either a raise or all in shove.....this is obv too many more than you may think. Therefor this hand and situation is bad in so many ways:

1. Everyone folds but BB and they out flop you
2. You re raise they see the obvious play and fold

Ok so after all that rambling, finally, to my point.

What if we did the same thing(limp with AA in EP) but called the raiser instead of shoving or reraising him? It's exactly what we want right? It's just that we flipped the roles around, but accomplished the same thing....

Think of it in the reverse order, us in position on them...

1. we raise and everyone folds and our AA makes nothing.

2. Or we raise and someone calls and we play the hand out like we wanted to

It's the same thing its just that we are in a different position....

The only downside to this obv would be everyone folding to the BB, and us getting out flopped...which is why I still advise not to do it, but i think this might be the best way?!

Limping in early pos with a big pair leads to multiway pots and big pairs are hard to improve against drawing hands or random two pair suckouts. Exception is when you have a lot of preflop aggression and want to 3 bet over raisers in mid or late pos.

IMO, there are situations where limping with big pairs is a good strategy.
1. your table has aggresive players who will try and isolate you with a marginal hand.
2. Youre so short stacked that you need the action and are willing to risk being outflopped to make the extra chips (fearing a fold from everybody if you shove because you still have too many chips to call off).

But yeah, if I have a big stack and the player is aggressive with a high % of continuation bets I will flat his iso raise and let him c bet before raising (if the board is safe I might let him 2 barrel before raising).
If Im short stacked you can shove allin preflop after his iso raise because he will have a hand strong enough to call (youre short stacked and hes committed himself).

Im sure there are other reasons. And Im sure the situation at your table will help you make your decision.

I play micro limit and if the table is generally LAG'gy I limp with big pairs and if I get sucked out on its my own fault...but I get paid off more by limping than 2.5-3 BB raises w/ big pairs preflop. Conversly if the table is nitty I will go ahead and hit it hard because Im not going to get much action anyways with the limp so might as well shut down the limpers who will suck out on me...just my 2 cents on micro and big pairs and getting paid off with them.

Limping in with big hands

Hi,

Michael, I think you are right, everything depends on the tournament table action, loose or tight and if there are some agressive players, and then of course where you are in the tourney, especially if you are near the bubble. As a rule I will at least min raise with AA or KK every time. A win is a win, even if it is just the blinds and antes. But early on at a loose table with a couple agressive players, I will just slowplay those monster hands preflop, even more so if I hit the flop and try to trap to build the pot, then read the flop and turn to determine when I push it. After tourney midpoint, early position 4x is the raise with AA, 3X for KK, late postion a but higher, and maybe even make it look like a steal if the blinds have been agressive.

I think I would hardly ever limp a big pair at a full table. I might min-raise if the table was really tight, but I don't want to let garbage hands in for free. But once it gets down to about 5 or fewer players and some are getting short stacked I would be much more likely to limp to induce someone to shove back at me.

If you limp with a big hand you lose the preflop advantage that it had and you are effectively back in the pack having to catch something extra on the drawing cards.
If this happens the hand is disguised so the trap could work and bring a big payout.
If it doesn't catch anything then the hand may well go behind and a good fold will be required.

There is no single correct way to play any hand,
but ABC Poker rarely wins any major tournaments.

Lately I've been experimenting with min-raising (when I open) with A/A or K/K. I kind of like it. If I win the blinds it was never meant to be and eliminates the possibility of them sucking out on me.
If they think I'm doing it because I'm weak I get 3-bet... which is a good thing.
This probably isn't a good strategy in a game with adept players, but when people will happily stack with top pair, I like it.

If I were you, I'd only call with a big pocket pair when in late position, because you don't want too many callers.

One thing i have been thinking is to do the opposite of this vs a decent player. most players are going to insta fold almost any hand like AK AQ is someone utg limps then raises... so why not try this with other hands? things like even if they do call you can flop hard, maybe 67s? This does seem quite risky but if you are against a decent lag, or someone with maybe stats like 20 pfr, or someone who seems to hate limpers this might be a great way to pick up some chips.

Thoughts? This is probably to crazy idea for most people..

I think it's great to limp in with rags and slow play them if you hit on the flop. They won't expect you to have crap and hit the flop. The only problem is if they hit on the turn or river.

oveja_negra11 said:

I think it's great to limp in with rags and slow play them if you hit on the flop. They won't expect you to have crap and hit the flop. The only problem is if they hit on the turn or river.

Click to expand...

Wow i dont think this relates to any point in here... Im not exactly sure what you are saying.. but limping rags and then slowplaying? wtf lol

What I am afraid of here - and it happens a lot in the games I play, be it MTT or STT, probably cause they are usually between 2-5$ buy in - is seeing a flop with 4-5 limpers. It comes 3 paint or straight draw and any flop with so many limpers is dangerous with a possible set etc., and I am first to act with lots following, so I always raise here. I get a caller often enough, and if I just take the blinds, I am ok with that. Would you say this is proper play for these games?

But on the subject of limping in EP, I have lots of problems deciding what to do with low PP like 22-88 and hands like ATs+, QJs+ in EP. I have been on a lot of tables where I see multiple limpers seeing the flop, so I dont really want to raise with this UTG, cause I will possibly have a few callers as well, and am having to act first on a potentially unfriendly flop, but I dont really want to throw it away either. Its still a hard spot for me. SO any thought on this situation would be appreciated.

Unless you are playing against brainless zombies, the way you play preflop should be somewhat balanced. Which is why most regs decide to never open-limp but instead raise any hand they choose to open. It's a much better adjustement than limping monsters to disguise them.

Obviously if you play microstakes, you ARE mostly playing against brainless zombie and none of the above applies.