STT results questions

Hi,
due to bankroll-problems and inspired by a trainingvideo, a while ago I decided to give it a serious shot in STTs.
I know we should actually track our results in net profit/hour.
Tough, as a beginner, not playing to many tables at a time I think for the timebeing, I'd better look at my ROI.

So, in general, playing micro turbo SNGs, looking at ROI, what would we consider a good result, and how many sessions do we have to play to consider this result as reliable ?

Sorry,I know it's been mentioned before in a thread, but just couldn't find it.

Btw, after playing some 2- and 3 table SNGs, going back to STT, I found out my results got better.
Coincidence or does somebody probably have the same experience ?

Well actually, if we're just looking at ROI, it's quite dangerous as you may not achieve the results you are looking for, or worse, you may go on a heater and think 25% roi is the norm for that level.

However, good guidelines for todays games is anything at around 10% is good. Your looking for about a 1000 game sample of the turbos and maybe a few less games for the regular speed for it to even be worth looking at, and around 3-5k games before it starts getting reliable.

Yes, if your only playing 1-2 tables your overall $/hour will be very low. However, if you want to do the research/study. Instead of looking at ROI look into your "distribution" statistics. These in my experiance can be a real give away of problem areas in tournaments. A typical winning players distribuition involves an ITM % of usually around 38-40% with first place being near the highest %. They will usually have a lower bubble % and a much higher 5-6th place finish distribution.

If you don't know what i'm talking about i'm happy to explain, i think i may have written something on this in the past on CC though, so i might dig up a link or two in a second.

10058765 said:

Btw, after playing some 2- and 3 table SNGs, going back to STT, I found out my results got better.
Coincidence or does somebody probably have the same experience ?

Click to expand...

My experience has been > playing MTT-SNG I run with a much higher ROI% than playing STT. This is pretty normal imo. Alot of the better regs. in micro buyin MTT-SNG are 20%+ROI (referring to the 18's & 27's 'reg.' speed, buyins $3-$7).

Not sure if you were referring instead to > "after playing predominantly MTT-SNG, have found my results have gotten better when I've gone back to STT". Can't say if I can relate as I've never gone back to STT.

oh yah.. & gl!! hope you're able to build up the roll.

Thanks for the reply guys.
I'm aware my sample so far isn't close to being big enough (just about 500 turbo-sessions).
But, probably as a non-reg, looking at the results, I don't think it's to bad so far.

October: 202 tournaments, ROI 6.69 % , ITM 37.13 %
November: 297 tournaments, ROI 6.93 % , ITM 40.4 %

These numbers are not completely accurate, because I found out my tracker sometimes puts 2-table Sng's under the tab STT, so I have to correct some of them.

But...we'll see after a while.
When I get some more routine in making my decissions at the tables, I'll open up some more tables simultaneously and see what happens.
Besides that, studying my hands should make me discover some serious leaks, which should obv be EV+.
I'll probably give an update within a few weeks.

Thanks again and good game to you.

There's a nice blog about STT here also about the ROI Numbers
http://www.nsdpoker.com/2011/03/stt-pro/

(hope it's oki to the link, else remove it mods. )

Poker Orifice said:

My experience has been > playing MTT-SNG I run with a much higher ROI% than playing STT. This is pretty normal imo. Alot of the better regs. in micro buyin MTT-SNG are 20%+ROI (referring to the 18's & 27's 'reg.' speed, buyins $3-$7).

Click to expand...

Yeah, but as you see en the blog (my prev. post) you will also have a much bigger variance playing MTT the larger the field the bigger the variance.
Actually the numbers in that blog is quite interesting, except if you're MTT player .
ring 6max and STT seems pretty safe thou.

spunka said:

Yeah, but as you see en the blog (my prev. post) you will also have a much bigger variance playing MTT the larger the field the bigger the variance.
Actually the numbers in that blog is quite interesting, except if you're MTT player .
ring 6max and STT seems pretty safe thou.

Click to expand...

Think you might have lost something in the translation >
MTT-SNG = Multi-table SNG's (not large-field MTT's).
SNG players who are regularly playing the 18's & 27's (45's on some sites) typically run with a MUCH higher ROI than those who are playing STT-SNG (Single-table SNG).

Pretty sure I understand the 'higher variance in large-field mtt's' (didn't see OP posting about MTT's in this thread though)

ah, the point is you have a higher ROI in MTT's because the variance is higher and a lower ROI in STT as variance is lower.

Hence you can't compare you 20% ROI against OP's 6.9 ROI as the Roi will be different when there is more players in the tournament.

so he can't use your 20% roi in STT's. only to compare it with the mtt-sng that he did stop playing.

Also the numbers should point him to the answers of what ROI he should have depending on his rakeback deal, and who many games that is needed to reduce variance, and that is as always quite a lot of games. 5.000 - 10.000 games, what is importent then for a good player is stille the variance is much small, hence a player with +roi will have a less risk of losing money compared to MTT and MTT-sng's.

10058765 said:

Btw, after playing some 2- and 3 table SNGs, going back to STT, I found out my results got better.
Coincidence or does somebody probably have the same experience ?

Click to expand...

That is what I am trying to say with the number, you will have less variance, you will wind up in the money more often but win less when you play STT instead of MTT-sng's.
But you will also be smaller when you play STT instead of MTT-sng's.

Poker Orifice said:

SNG players who are regularly playing the 18's & 27's (45's on some sites) typically run with a MUCH higher ROI than those who are playing STT-SNG (Single-table SNG).

Click to expand...

...
I use pokerprolabs. I know all player's stats. on all tables. Winning regs. in STT-SNG (better ones) can expect +5-10% roi but in MTT-SNG, +20% is not uncommon (some are much higher).
These numbers are based upon every table I've played on & every player on every table I've played on '&' every player on every table I've railed/sweated.

ye, so we do agree after all