Stt bubble

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WiZZiM

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just wanting to see what you guys would do in these situations.. remember this is specific to sng late stage play on the bubble..



First one i consider very standard.. what do you do and why? same with the rest.. this is from one sng i recently played.. i want to dicuss a few spots. ill show you what i did and why.. also show you a bad play that i didnt think through well enough.. and how and why it can be a good play in certain situations..
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HAND #1
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poker stars, $3.40 Buy-in (300/600 blinds, 50 ante) NL Hold'em Tourney, 4 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

Hero (SB): 4,515 (7.5 bb)
BB: 4,600 (7.7 bb)
CO: 1,980 (3.3 bb)
BTN: 3,905 (6.5 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with J
heart.gif
A
heart.gif

2 folds, Hero????



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HAND #2
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Poker Stars, $3.40 Buy-in (300/600 blinds, 50 ante) NL Hold'em Tourney, 4 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

Hero (BTN): 9,130 (15.2 bb)
SB: 85 (0.1 bb)
BB: 1,930 (3.2 bb)
CO: 3,855 (6.4 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is BTN with T
club.gif
2
spade.gif

CO folds, Hero????


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HAND #3
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Poker Stars, $3.40 Buy-in (300/600 blinds, 50 ante) NL Hold'em Tourney, 4 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

Hero (SB): 10,500 (17.5 bb)
BB: 815 (1.4 bb)
CO: 880 (1.5 bb)
BTN: 2,805 (4.7 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with Q
club.gif
2
spade.gif

hero???

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HAND #4
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Poker Stars, $3.40 Buy-in (300/600 blinds, 50 ante) NL Hold'em Tourney, 4 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

Hero (CO): 10,100 (16.8 bb)
BTN: 915 (1.5 bb)
SB: 1,280 (2.1 bb)
BB: 2,705 (4.5 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is CO with 3
club.gif
K
heart.gif

hero??
 
P

Pavster

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I think I shove 1 without reads. Well ahead of two random cards.

There's an argument for shoving here too. BB can't call without a monster. Shorty too short to worry about. If we lose we can continue to abuse the bubble.

BB can't really call in 3 as CO is going out in the next 2 hands.

Think I might leave well alone in 4.
 
Debi

Debi

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Very interesting hands.

Hand 1 - even though it is the bubble and 2 stacks are shorter and you would be shoving into the only person who can put you out - I think you still have to shove here. AJs is a premium hand 4 handed. You can't really raise without being committed with the blinds at 300/600 and folding AJs just seems sinful here.

Hand 2 - again it is shove or fold with the blinds and chip stacks of the sb and bb. If you shove the bb is likely to fold and you might put the micro stack out. But with such crappy cards there is something to be said for folding and letting the bubble continue so you can try to get some more chips out of the other 2 who are going to play ultra tight til the micro stack is gone. That is what I would do.

Hands 3 and 4 - I am normally very aggressive with the huge stack on the bubble and could support shoving both of these though the same thing I said above could hold true here.
 
zek

zek

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it helps if can type the players at all as generally tight, loose, etc.

#1 you have to shove even if he isn't a tighty and calls with any two cards. Most people in that spot wouldn't risk getting crippled and going out #4 without having a premium hand. If he doesn't call you get like a 20% stack increase, if he calls and loses you are by far the chip leader and likely to win, and if we calls and you lose well that's the way to cookie crumbles. :)

#2 - I'll disagree with the crowd and say fold. Let the BB try to knock out the SB. shove with T2o? nuts.

#3 what did the CO and button do? if they folded might as well put the BB in and try to knock him out.

#4 fold. one of them is likely to push and I don't like calling with hands that are likely to be dominated. unless they are all tight and likely to fold while trying to survive i'd fold, otherwise try a min raise to take the blinds if they are all nits.
 
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WiZZiM

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well i got more replys than i thought id get.. i tried to make a similar thread a while back and no one got the point of sng bubble play...

1
pretty easy decision it seems.. easy shove. into a stack with under 10 bb's.. i did have a read on this player, they seemed to call pretty loosely.. so here i cannot shove any two cards but a much tighter range.. AJ suited is definately in that shoving range.. here id most probably shove any ace.. good broadway KQ s j10 Suited.. some suited connectors and any pair.. against a player who didnt call with such a wide range i can obviously start to include more hands.. like most suited connectors and anything that isnt junk..

we can shove here profitably in blind v blind situations as the bb wont usually call wide enough to make it a bad play.. and even when they do call we still win a decent % of the time..

result i shoved the AJ hearts.. he snap called me with k8 of hearts and i of course double up..


Hand2
This i thought was a really cool spot.. now remember we are on the bubble.. the majority of money made by a good sng player is abusing the bubble situations. as calling ranges are generally super tight...

here i saw this as an ideal chance to shove.. with the sb pretty much with like 1bb.. the bb is never calling without a super strong hand.. he jsut wont risk it..

so the shove here if i get a fold i win money instantly i take down roughly 500 plus antes without even having to showdown for it.. another thing too, my hand is super weak here, i actualy WANT the sb to win this hand i want the bubble to continue so that i can take chips off the other guys..

result i shoved (i would shove any two here) and bb folded.. i hit a 3 on the flop i think.. and i was rooting for the sb to hit and he rivered a 6 so the bubble continues..


Hand 3 was an interesting one and the hand i made a pretty big mistake on.. not a huge mistake but still one i dont want to ever replicate..

i was multitabling at the time 6 tables i think.. and this spot came up.. now i wanted teh bubble to continue for as long as possible so i could take more chips of the middle stack.. who didnt have much at this point.
i actualyl folded this hand to the bb. sure i can shove here and i should shove its a proftiable play. queen high is good against a random hand why wouldnt i shove? because i wanted to keep the bubble alive..

this was a bad play in this situation as i didnt think through to the next hand.. sure i can fold it here to keep him alive.. but the problem with that here in this spot is the next hand the CO will be pretty much committed.. now if you switch the CO stack with the BTN stack this actually becomes a good play.. as now i can expect the other shortstack to fold most hands and i can again shove with anytwo and take 600 chips of the bb.. if the shortstack sb calls oh well. if i win were in the money.. if i lose oh well. its not that much of a big deal..

so again it was a mistake but this is a concept im trying to get across that the bubble in sng is where a good player makes his money.. taking advantage of situations and players calling ranges is what its all about..

result i folded, and gave him the blinds.. immediately realised i made a mistake as the bb next hand was committed and i was dealt 8 2 off so i had to fold on the button.. the small blind folded and we move onto the next hand.


Hand 4 is pretty standard i think
the two short stackers here are both trying to outlast each other.. i would and will shove here with anything.. calling ranges of all players are super tight.. as they wanted to make the money.. primarily i want all the stacks reduced as much as possible so when the bubble bursts i have a huge chip advantage..

result i shoved and took down the blinds again..

next hand i think the bubble burst and i easily won the sng..

i thought it was a cool sng to share... i posted a thread before about owning the bubble but no one seemed to get the priciple concepts here..
i know im terrible at explaining stuff. but please let me know what you guys think...
 
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WiZZiM

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Very interesting hands.

Hand 1 - even though it is the bubble and 2 stacks are shorter and you would be shoving into the only person who can put you out - I think you still have to shove here. AJs is a premium hand 4 handed. You can't really raise without being committed with the blinds at 300/600 and folding AJs just seems sinful here.

we can try another play here. we can just call and bet any flop.. id do that with like A5sutied or something along those lines..problem is villain has shown some loose calls and hes the only one who has me covered.. considering i could fold my way into the money. we can sometimes play a more careful way.. the "call, bet any flop play" seems to be working a super hiugh% of the time and we risk less than just raising.. but again i think AJ is far to strong to try this play.. i prefer shoving and i honestly dont mind a call from this particular player.. if this was someone who was supertight. id shove a much much wider range here.

Hand 2 - again it is shove or fold with the blinds and chip stacks of the sb and bb. If you shove the bb is likely to fold and you might put the micro stack out. But with such crappy cards there is something to be said for folding and letting the bubble continue so you can try to get some more chips out of the other 2 who are going to play ultra tight til the micro stack is gone. That is what I would do.
cool thing about shoving here is we hopefully make the bb fold.. +500 into our stack instantly and our hand is shite so hopefully the sb picks up pocket aces and doubles up keeping the bubble alive.. i remember cheering when the 6 fell on the river hahaah.

Hands 3 and 4 - I am normally very aggressive with the huge stack on the bubble and could support shoving both of these though the same thing I said above could hold true here.
..
 
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WiZZiM

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it helps if can type the players at all as generally tight, loose, etc.

#1 you have to shove even if he isn't a tighty and calls with any two cards. Most people in that spot wouldn't risk getting crippled and going out #4 without having a premium hand. If he doesn't call you get like a 20% stack increase, if he calls and loses you are by far the chip leader and likely to win, and if we calls and you lose well that's the way to cookie crumbles. :)

#2 - I'll disagree with the crowd and say fold. Let the BB try to knock out the SB. shove with T2o? nuts. think in terms of the situation at hand here. the bb wants to make the money.. he sees hes naerly there he just needs the sb to be out.. i make a raise all in, if it were me i wouldnt want to call with anything but premium hands.. JJ+ and AK thats it.. maybe not even JJ more like QQ+ if he calls this shove here.. he needs to beat me and the sb taking out two players and were in the money.. but if i win against him and the sb stays alive. hes bubbled this is just such a profitable shove here ill make it everytime. as soon as he folds like 90% of hands i pick up like 5-600 chips without even going to showdown with him.. then i have a chance to either knock the sb out. or keep him alive so i can abuse the bubble situation longer and get some more blinds..

#3 what did the CO and button do? if they folded might as well put the BB in and try to knock him out.

#4 fold. one of them is likely to push and I don't like calling with hands that are likely to be dominated. unless they are all tight and likely to fold while trying to survive i'd fold, otherwise try a min raise to take the blinds if they are all nits.
min raise is out of the question here. that pretty much is a shove.. i shove here with any hand. as i know the bb cant call with out a monster and i dont really care if one of the shorties calls me. i have a chance to beat them and if they happen to double up.. oh well i can still abuse the bubble with more shoves later.. shoving most hands in these situations are profitable as the calling ranges are just so tight..

of course some regs will pick up on this and call looser.. so we just adjust and shove a tighter range..

..
 
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