Strategy for holding on to chip lead late in a Tournament.

NEWTDOG101

NEWTDOG101

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Ok does anyone have some useful tips on how to maintain chip lead late in a tournament?

The pass 3 out of 5 SnG tourns. I've played most of the tournament I've manage to gain chip leader down to the last 200 or so players of an entrance of 3500 or better players, but always seem to loose out at this stage. Same in the 990 player sng. Last one I played it was the bubble I'm leader dealt KK did the normal 3 bet raise 2nd largest stack re raises so what do I do, all-in, 2nd stack has QQ and the Q hit on the river! Yeah leaves me with about 500 chips so its basically game over.:egg:


So what do yall say???
 
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Raise often and for small amounts and adjust range to the opponents adjustment to your wider raising range.
 
JohnBoyWWFC

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You can't really do anything about that cooler. Late on I would be raising to 2.5x rather than 3x and if you're loosening out and it's not working, tighten up and pick your spots. If you're chip leader there's no need to loosen out when you have short stacks looking to double up, but some well timed aggression is fine.
 
ckickenking

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Use the power of the big stack and bully, but be careful.
 
arahel_jazz

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Don't do stupid like me - when you are in the top 5 and there are 10 to go to the bubble:

Full Tilt - $1+0.10 $1 + $0.10 Sit Go (#220252239) - Blinds: 120/240 No Limit Hold'em (7 players)
Full Tilt Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com
SB: t6,255
BB: t4,402
UTG: t3,560
MP: t4,545
MP+1: t11,135
CO: t3,990
BTN Hero: t6,425
Pre-flop: (t360) Hero is BTN and dealt :10d4: :10s4:
4 folds, Hero raises t720, SB folds, BB raises t960, Hero raises t5,705 (All-in), BB calls t3,202 (All-in)
Flop: (t10,947) :ah4: :4h4: :8c4: (2 players)
Turn: (t10,947) :ah4: :4h4: :8c4: :4s4: (2 players)
River: (t10,947) :ah4: :4h4: :8c4: :4s4: :5c4: (2 players)
Final Pot: t10,947
Showdown:
Hero shows :10d4: :10s4:
BB shows :qc4: :qh4:
Outcome: BB wins t8,924
 
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pol_92121

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you have to win the where many players limp... if you are cutoff or bootton and many players put the bigblind in my opinion you have to go allin because very much times all the other people folds and you win the blinds...obviusly you can do that when the blinds are enought high.... also you have to play more hands because you have the stack for bully the table!!!
 
doops

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Bubble play in a NLHE tourney:

When you have a big chip stack (big = five or more times the average at the table, IMO; 10xaverage would be better), you can play the table bully. But if there is another stack that is greater than yours, be careful. You do not want to find yourself in a war with that guy -- you are just looking to steal blinds and antes from the medium stacks and the small stacks that are hoping to squeak past the bubble. You want to be pushing at people who are worried and who can't really hurt you.

Since the blinds and antes at this point are usually pretty nice, if the other players don't play back at you, you can amass a substantial increase of your chip stack. But DO NOT FORGET WHAT YOU ARE DOING. If a very small stack shoves his 3BB stack, it's OK to stay in that hand. If he wins, it does not damage your stack much. But if a 15BB stack shoves, you want to have a hand of some sort. Otherwise, you are likely to whittle down your own nice stack until you are also in trouble. (Been there, done that.)

If at all possible, do not engage with other big stacks. If one of them is trying to be table bully, then you may have to back off on that job. Unless, of course, you find yourself with a monster. Even then, consider whether this is the time you want to go out. (Yes, you could double up. But when there's a bigstack war at a table, they both usually have very nice hands. And I can't tell you how happy the other players are to see this battle. I'm not saying fold your KK--but be ready to be OK if it loses. It's a choice you make, so no crying.)

Some bigstack table bullies will raise every single hand. That creates an interesting psycho-social dynamic. People start to resent it, they get angry, and some will get up the courage to call or shove. Some of them will double up, which will give others the courage. Especially if you call a shove with garbage and they see it. So I advise not raising every hand. Behave as if you are using some sense. Conversely, it's not necessary to wait for a premium hand. That is wasting an opportunity.
 
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discominkie

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I always try to avoid the other big stacks although with KK I think you had to get the chips in, just unfortunate.

When you are chip leader, people expect you to start bullying, so I am always wary of attacking the shortest stacks with ATC because they are desperate and will shove at any time, especially when they are expecting you to raise. I think the softest targets are those that are comfortable with the blinds and holding out for a decent hand.
 
NEWTDOG101

NEWTDOG101

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Thanks for all the tips!!! I managed to place in 2 of 3 tournaments since this post. Best placement was 5th. I tested the methods in small buy-in tourneys. with not so great pay-out, but this was to see if I can make it!

I'm not a heavy hitter yet but remember my name you will see it again!!! :)
 
Salty Mouse

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I've had trouble with this very issue, too.

The near end game shovers with low chip counts don't really phase me; it's the gigantic-stack chip bullies. And it always seems to coincide when when I start getting a run of marginal-or-worse hole cards.

Multiple times I've waited for the monster to see a strong chip stack whittled down by ever-increasing blinds and antes down to nothing.
 
JohnBoyWWFC

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Don't do stupid like me - when you are in the top 5 and there are 10 to go to the bubble:

Full Tilt - $1+0.10 $1 + $0.10 Sit Go (#220252239) - Blinds: 120/240 No Limit Hold'em (7 players)
Full Tilt Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com
SB: t6,255
BB: t4,402
UTG: t3,560
MP: t4,545
MP+1: t11,135
CO: t3,990
BTN Hero: t6,425
Pre-flop: (t360) Hero is BTN and dealt :10d4: :10s4:
4 folds, Hero raises t720, SB folds, BB raises t960, Hero raises t5,705 (All-in), BB calls t3,202 (All-in)
Flop: (t10,947) :ah4: :4h4: :8c4: (2 players)
Turn: (t10,947) :ah4: :4h4: :8c4: :4s4: (2 players)
River: (t10,947) :ah4: :4h4: :8c4: :4s4: :5c4: (2 players)
Final Pot: t10,947
Showdown:
Hero shows :10d4: :10s4:
BB shows :qc4: :qh4:
Outcome: BB wins t8,924

Why was this stupid? Because you ran into the one time he was at the top of his range? Or was he a total nit? I think this a was a great play.
 
bonflizubi

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I've had trouble with this very issue, too.

The near end game shovers with low chip counts don't really phase me; it's the gigantic-stack chip bullies. And it always seems to coincide when when I start getting a run of marginal-or-worse hole cards.

Multiple times I've waited for the monster to see a strong chip stack whittled down by ever-increasing blinds and antes down to nothing.

you cant wait for the monster. if yo uare card dead play position and play the player. DOn't let yourself blind down to having no fold equity left.
 
arahel_jazz

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Why was this stupid? Because you ran into the one time he was at the top of his range? Or was he a total nit? I think this a was a great play.

I feel that it is a leak in my game - I get impatient late in tournaments and end up on the bad end of these types of hands. More often than not, I'm re-shoving into a monster.
 
ben_rhyno

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I don't mind the 4-bet here aswell. Still left you with 9BB too, so not the end of the world. I would like it much less vs someone who had you well covered and was nitty
 
MediaBLITZ

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I feel that it is a leak in my game - I get impatient late in tournaments and end up on the bad end of these types of hands. More often than not, I'm re-shoving into a monster.

You were fine on this one - you just got topped. Didn't that possibility cross your mind? Would you have thought it was a good play had you flopped trips?
Point is - it was either a solid play or it wasn't. The results of the next 5 cards cannot change that. Bubble was on everyone's mind so a great time to be aggressive, steal some blinds, etc.
What was your thought process during this? That's where you will find a leak, if any.
 
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arahel_jazz

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You were fine on this one - you just got topped. Didn't that possibility cross your mind? Would you have thought it was a good play had you flopped trips?
Point is - it was either a solid play or it wasn't. The results of the next 5 cards cannot change that. Bubble was on everyone's mind so a great time to be aggressive, steal some blinds, etc.
What was your thought process during this? That's where you will find a leak, if any.

If I would have flopped trips against the Queens, I would have considered myself a lucky fish. The root of the leak appears to be that I have the "YDHS" syndrome of not believing the re-raise and shoving into it. I can probably dig up several dozen tournaments that I've made the exact same move with the exact same results. Thinking that I could come over the top and the villian would fold to my superior skills? Nope. Not going to happen at micro stakes - particularly against QQ. But I continue to fall on my sword with it and tilt like an idiot when it happens.

Would this have been better as a smooth call? Maybe. If I had called, and then shoved on the flop - maybe I could get him to fold then by representing the Ace with position. But... oh well.

Sorry to derail thread...
 
MediaBLITZ

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Maybe your leak is - you want it all and now. :)

I am still wondering your thought process - because if you only got as far as TT on the button in your head - that's a problem.

What crossed your mind on his re-raise? What was your read on this guy?
Of course try to remember what actually went through your head, not what might have or should have.

This is probably the biggest factor to determine if it was a spot on play or not.
If you had no read on the guy (either you or him were just introduced to table): Then you are just taking your chances.

If you knew the guy had not been getting involved in hands and all of a sudden he pops you up like that: well you gotta figure a coin flip at best.

If you knew the guy was Laggy, then good play - he's probably just defending his blind.

If you just went "click" - all in - because you had a pair (figuratively and literally) - well now you have a disengaged brain that will continue to get you in trouble down the road.

Disclaimer: None of this intended to be pointed at you personally. Others will be reading this so it's pretty generalized in hopes of making a quality post that will pass the test :rolleyes:
 
bonflizubi

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sometimes it's just a cooler. You should be well head of the BB range.

The only clue here is that he did the supermin-reraise. Usually that indicates a monster... though some players will use that as a bluff. Against a random player, I assume it's real - though the problem is it could represent any hand he is willing to shove pre. In a SNG here that could be, IDK 88+ AQ+, maybe AJ? KQss? Very viallain Dependant. (And I'll admit I don't know the ranges that should be here for SNG play....)

I'm not sure if it had been me if I would have cautiously flatted, or said FU I'm cramming it in your pie-hole how dare you uber min raise me. That's a game-flow gut decision....
 
MediaBLITZ

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sometimes it's just a cooler. You should be well head of the BB range.

The only clue here is that he did the supermin-reraise. Usually that indicates a monster... though some players will use that as a bluff. Against a random player, I assume it's real - though the problem is it could represent any hand he is willing to shove pre. In a SNG here that could be, IDK 88+ AQ+, maybe AJ? KQss? Very viallain Dependant. (And I'll admit I don't know the ranges that should be here for SNG play....)

I'm not sure if it had been me if I would have cautiously flatted, or said FU I'm cramming it in your pie-hole how dare you uber min raise me. That's a game-flow gut decision....

Yeah. if it was me I am probably flat calling - getting scared to death by the ace and hoping if he checks I'll have the balls to rep the ace (but probably not all in) - but if he c-bets, I'm out. See how easy it is when you know the out come :cool:
 
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