Stalling as a strategy?

G

Gribbley

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If you're involved in a tournament online and have a fairly secure chip lead, is stalling a worthwhile strategy (continuously timing out)

Of course it's annoying, but it seems to be pretty common in freerolls.
 
mfturq

mfturq

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Stalling is a little more than annoying... not so ethical imo

If you were trying to find out if it was somehow a "strategy"...you need to include much more info such as field size, level structure, your table characteristics....

that being said you would have a near impossible time making an argument that stalling is somehow a +EV "strategy" for the chip leader
 
GSpicoli

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Its not a strategy, its simple cowardice and a sorry excuse for poker.

I have noticed that a lot of people do it trying to make the money when there are just a few people left on the bubble. I was playing in the Satellite to the Ferguson(top 100 get 1 Tourney Dollar) the other night and I had a comfortable amount of chips to not have to play in anymore hands and still make the cash. Everyone at my table waited for the last possible second to fold their hands or just time out, except for me. I took advantage of everyones cowardice and stole about half of the blinds and bounced out 3 more players to get us closer to the money. I also busted the person who was on the bubble and they didn't like that too much. I went into another tourney after the satellite and the person I busted in 101st followed me there to yell at me for pushing them all in and beating them with pocket kings to their queen 10 offsuit, saying something about me not having to do that and I should have just folded and let them make the money. I just laughed and told them to go kill themselves if they thought what I did was such a personal tragedy.
 
FatBasset

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I play in double up sng's and if I get over twice the initial chip amount, then I take my full allotted time for each action. I want the blinds to escalate faster and put pressure on the smaller stacks to make a move with marginal cards. doesn't matter whether I accumulate any more chips same prize for all of the winners.
 
whiteboy

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by stalling, you put pressure on short stacks by raising the blinds quicker (compared to the number of hands played that is. this makes them unable to play hands, and instead only leaves them with the option of going all-in), or if you are the short stack, you can relieve pressure off yourself by decreasing the speed of the next hand coming to you

i don't see what is "unethical" about doing this. in poker, you want to use every resource you have to your advantage, and this is one of them.

someone called it "cowardice"...is not wanting to be the bubble boy really cowardice? i mean, i sure wouldn't want to, and i would do whatever i can to make that not happen. imo, you are just playing smart.
 
GSpicoli

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I'd rather go out on the bubble than play my poker game like a sissy that is afraid to make moves and miss cashing. People always say "Don't play with scared money", I think that also applies in this situation. If you are scared to not make the cash then you need to reassess your priorities.

You can fool yourself into believeing that its "smart poker" but we all know the truth. Until you can learn how to lose, especially on the bubble, then you can never know how to win.
 
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Brian182

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Definitely you're selling your pride when you do this, but it is a strategy. When playing an MTT with hundreds of people, many people do this to make the money if only a few short stacks need to get out. However, usually you're playing hand for hand and you don't really need to burn the clock. Also, if the blinds are going up in less than a minute, and the BB is about to put someone all-in, this is also a good way to increase your chances that that person bubbles out so you can make the money. However, if you are also short stack in risk to bubble, keep in mind there is still a good chance that person can double up or more with the antes, because a big stack may call with a mediocre hand and the person all-in may actually have a good hand. Then, you are forced to make a play when it comes to your turn or you're going to bubble. I see some people burn the clock early game, and it pisses me off. Keep in mind, however, some people play like 8 tables at a time. It's easy to see who does it on purpose.
 
riverboatrat

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I think its unsportsmanlike, cowardly and unethical.

I hate it when shortstack stall to try and crawl into the money because the only thing that they are successfully doing is increasing the blinds before it gets to them. hellooo ?? thats a dumb idea.

I would like to invent a device that punches people in the face over the internet when they do this and become rich and famous
 
GSpicoli

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Maybe I'm just trying to explain pride and dignity to a bunch of young kids. The kids that have started to come of age in the last 10 years. Kids that got a trophy or award just for participating in an activity. Kids that never performed a physical activity without a helmet and knee pads. Kids who never left their house because they were too busy playing video games. Kids that were sheltered from the harsh realities of life and the world by their parents. Kids that think getting the reward makes them a winner. Kids that strive for mediocrity instead of being extraordinary and don't know the difference. Kids who are told that they are special everyday when in fact they are just "special". Kids that have an over-inflated ego and self-worth when in fact they haven't done anything to deserve such a thing. Kids who are going to grow-up just to be another person that gets in the way of those of us who are trying to get shit done.

When I was growing up I had to learn how to do things well to get an award or trophy. I got laughed at and teased when I wasn't good at things, it just motivated me to get better so I could laugh at those who I surpassed along the way. When I played sports as a kid I only got a trophy for winning not for just participating. The only helmet and pads I had as a kid were for football, I had to go out and experience pain to learn my lesson about things I should and shouldn't do. My parents used to spank me when I was a little asshole, and I deserved it everytime. I just wish I wanted children so I could spank them the way I was as a kid.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you had dignity you would play the same before the bubble as you do after it. The ends don't always justify the means. Stop taking the easy road. Learn the difference between earning your wins and twisting the rules to the breaking point for a cheap win. Everytime you play like that you sacrifice a little piece of yourself that you can never get back. So take the loss, chalk it up to a learning experience and never try to do it again.
 
GSpicoli

GSpicoli

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I think its unsportsmanlike, cowardly and unethical.

I hate it when shortstack stall to try and crawl into the money because the only thing that they are successfully doing is increasing the blinds before it gets to them. hellooo ?? thats a dumb idea.

I would like to invent a device that punches people in the face over the internet when they do this and become rich and famous


Amen and hallelujah, brother.
 
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LizzyJ

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I play to win. Period. Whether I have a 1000 to 1 chip lead or short stacked. If I was that far ahead I might be more inclined to be more selective in the hands that I play, but if I was dealt something good then I would definately play it. stalling/sitting out is rude, arrogant and stupid.

I wish there would be a 'sit-out' rule where if you sit out more than 25 hands you forfeit. But people like this would probably find a way around that as well.
 
Makwa

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Stalling is a perfectly acceptable and useabale tactic, depending on stack size, bubbles and payout structure. Your time bank is yours to use any way you wish. Whiners who want to play fast while you think things out are too funny, they should learn to read a book. A good side effect is you can get them steaming and making mistakes to punish you lol. Any tools provided, that can move you up in money, are good and should be used (with discretion). Nothing unethical about it. In certain MTTs, where a large percentage of the field pays, I recommend slowing things down under right circumstances.
 
Makwa

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that being said you would have a near impossible time making an argument that stalling is somehow a +EV "strategy" for the chip leader

Good point. But there are situations where it is definitely +EV.
 
F

Flip Rogers

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Common practice, extremelly annoying, cant the poker sites monitor this practice and discpline users for this practice?
 
GSpicoli

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If you are actually playing in hands and you slow it down to give yourself time to think, that is fine. To constantly fold after taking all of your alloted time is just a stupid waste of time, yours and mine. When it takes 3 minutes to play a single hand online is rediculous. People who waste time in hopes of making the cash will have karma come back around and bite them in the ass.

Stop aspiring to mediocre goals. Play for the win or get out of the way.
 
pokerjdud

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ok this one i have to speak on.
pride and dignity...are NOT part of poker...
second if you have to stall to cash why not?
look at it this way ...if someone has a gun and calls u all kinds of names for running away, if you stand and get shot , is ur pride and dignity worth it?
 
pokerjdud

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go for the win or get out of the way?? lol i would rather go home with something than nothing, but i dunno that may be my "pride" speaking
 
GSpicoli

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Pride and dignity are very much a part of poker because they are a part of life in everything you do. Your analogy about the gun is irrelevant in this case, one thing is about a game and the other is about your continued existence in this world.

By making those statements I will guess that you are one of the Kids I was talking about in one of my previous posts. I can tell because the ideas that I put forth seem to be completely over your head.

You said : "i would rather go home with something than nothing, but i dunno that may be my "pride" speaking". That statement is the exact thing I am talking about. You would rather strive for mediocrity while sacrificing your dignity and pride, rather than play with pride and dignity and maybe go out before winning "something". You sound like one of the Kids who wants a reward for showing up and not for actually accomplishing something substantial.

Maybe there are way more ball busting mommies out there who have sucked all of the pride out of the daddies and they don't know how to teach their children pride, dignity and self respect. Just a thought.
 
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Inscore77

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Please dont stall, its very annoying
 
pokerjdud

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lol!!! gspicoli, i dont mean to sound like a jerk to you, but you sound like "that" guy, you know the one who ended up a bum because he wanted it all or nothing at all, do u really listen to what your saying? hell, i might be 22 but you sound like a kid to me. all your telling me is that if i cant have it all , take nothing, that sounds a little absurd to me.
 
GSpicoli

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That is not what I am saying at all. Pay attention I don't know if I will be able to break this down any more plainly for you. Play like you have heart and like you are not afraid to lose. Like I said before, I would rather go out on the bubble than play in a way that takes away from who I am and the way I think I should compete. If I make the cash and I don't win I'm fine with that knowing that I played every hand in a manner that I feel didn't cheapen what I accomplished.

To me, I hear you saying "It doesn't matter how I play, it is the end result that matters". That attitude is the farthest thing from where I stand and what I believe.

I have been involved with sports and competition all my life. I was taught that if I leave everything I have out on the field then I have nothing to hang my head down about regardless of the outcome. If I am stalling to make the cash (striving for mediocrity), hoping that the last couple of people get busted before I do then I see that as a personal loss. If I am waiting for other people to lose as opposed to playing to win then it is a personal loss. In that case I didn't leave everything out on the field and I have something to hang my head about even if I win.

I hope that is plain enough english for you.
 
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wooo

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well karma came back and bit me on the ars
i started playing freerolls with $0 balance
and i would always time out to get to the money
becos of karma biteing me in the arse i now have a backroll of $1400 down from $1420 DAM KARMA lol
 
riverboatrat

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I agree with GSpicoli to an extent, I'm the type of player that when the bubble looms, I pounce all over the shortstacks to build up a lead.

I play to win, I dont play for the money, or rather, I don't play to limp into the money.

HOWEVER!!! That being said, there are times that I know my stack won't hold out for me to last much longer than the 1st level of cash.

I will then be happy to limp into the money and then be assured that I have enough money to try again sometime, but this has NEVER EVER been reason enough for me to an idiot and stall.

I'll even check the fold button in advance so that the blinds don't increase and so that I can get to my next hand quicker and decide if that is the hand I am going to double up with.

I also believe that there's always the chance that someone else makes a mistake and I had better fold in a hurry so that hopefully there'll be action that will allow me to breathe a bit.

I never feel good about limping into the money but hey, sometimes I just suck in my pride and try again next time. But for the most part I ALWAYS play to win and that attitude has allowed me to cash in some games more than if I had just limped into the money.

I play according to my M ratio - if my M ratio is over 20 I am playing my normal game, stealing blinds where I can and making plays, if its under 7, I am openshoving with a combination of position and any group 1,2,3 or 4 holdings regardless of how close I am to the bubble.

But I refuse to stall the action.
 
riverboatrat

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well karma came back and bit me on the ars
i started playing freerolls with $0 balance
and i would always time out to get to the money
becos of karma biteing me in the arse i now have a backroll of $1400 down from $1420 DAM KARMA lol

If thats how you do your thing well good for you if it works, even though you come off as a parasite.
 
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