sng nits that suck out and wake up with a hand

2

2huskys

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Total posts
84
Chips
0
Do any of you play against the ****ing nits at the low sngs?The ones that play just to cash? They all just sit there when it gets to 4-5 handed and fold the blinds round to each other. They get down to 10bbs and a lot less then wake up with a ****ing hand, one better than yours or hit their 50-50, or suck out with their lower ace than you?It take ages to finish a sit n go.

How do you deal with them? Everytime I play I play to win the sng and when it comes to the bubble or if ive 10 bb i push with good hands a good ace or pocket pair 88+ etc. I win a lot of blinds which is the plan but they just sit there and sit there and fold the blinds to each other and get their miracle cards or suck out then youve to start again.THen id try double up nd lose a 60-40 or 50-50.

Ive even seen them win a pot in the early stages then sit out and hope that would see them in the money. THe funny thing is as soon as they do put you out 4th they go nuts nd start "playing again".
 
H

HyperHoopZ

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Total posts
36
Chips
0
Well if the way your playing isn't working surely you should rethink your strategy rather than straight shoving pop in a normal sized raise tbh I think this comes across stronger than a shove and less likely to be called. do you have your stats? How many sngs is this over?
 
ben_rhyno

ben_rhyno

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Total posts
1,642
Chips
0
Please don't plan to raise fold with 10bb, open shoving is better
 
C

cazique

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Total posts
119
Chips
0
It's you OP who's doing it wrong. The strategy for 9-man STT (especially the micro ones) is to tighten up and let others knock one another out. Once you make the money then you can loosen up because the worst you can do now is making a small profit.
 
doops

doops

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Total posts
669
Chips
0
Playing very tight in the early levels is considered optimum strategy. Part of that strategy is to open up the range slightly in mid-levels (5-7 players left) and then much wider and max aggression at the bubble and ITM.

Sounds like you are running into folks who know how to play SNGs. Or, at least, who use that strategy.

Go check out the SNG lessons at the pokerstars Poker School.
 
Poof

Poof

Made in the USA
Silver Level
Joined
May 21, 2008
Total posts
14,419
Chips
0
Sorry OP, I am definitely one of those nits.:)
I play to cash first then try to take it down.
 
H

HyperHoopZ

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Total posts
36
Chips
0
Please don't plan to raise fold with 10bb, open shoving is better

Agreed but if your the big stack I dont believe this to be true as we all know the 2nd stack will wake up with AA or KK then your crippled and guess what your bubble boy.
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,602
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
Check the stats. of these terrible players & tell us what you find.
It's usually the players who aren't playing any/many hands in early levels are the ones I notice are the ones who are still there during bubble play & the same ones who are taking it down.
 
Worak

Worak

Legend
Bronze Level
Joined
Oct 25, 2008
Total posts
6,024
Chips
0
Check the stats. of these terrible players & tell us what you find.
It's usually the players who aren't playing any/many hands in early levels are the ones I notice are the ones who are still there during bubble play & the same ones who are taking it down.

^^ This.

I'm playing rather tight myself (yeah some might think I don't always do that, lol) until I identify the all in bingo monkey, usually only takes 2 orbits.

If you identify someone as too nitty - why not steal his blinds relentlessly ?

If you want the sngs to finish faster....play turbo.
 
Z

Zync

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 31, 2010
Total posts
52
Chips
0
The strategy that you describe is IMO the best strategy if you multi-table and play a lot of game. You can't be loose aggressive and have success on a regular basis using this strategy in SNG. LAG is good for MTT where the prize are high for first places and you cash 1 out of 20 tourney. In SNG, you have to cash approximately 1 out of 2 tourneys to be profitable so LAG is not the good strategy there.

If you don't like the strategy, try it first. Let us then know if you are profitable after it.
 
2

2huskys

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Total posts
84
Chips
0
yes I am very profitable with my current strategy which is to play very tight early and loosen up later which you have to because there are less people.I always get a very commanding chip lead and normally win a lot because of that.
 
tusabes

tusabes

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Total posts
243
Chips
0
yes I am very profitable with my current strategy which is to play very tight early and loosen up later which you have to because there are less people.I always get a very commanding chip lead and normally win a lot because of that.

Ok...from this post it sounds like you're making a profit. What are we trying to overcome exactly? Shove fold strategy at the bubble is fairly common strategy. Just try to make the correct moves. If you haven't I would google "sng bubble strategy". You will get tons of info about moves to make and when to make them. gl
 
FreeRollWannabe

FreeRollWannabe

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Total posts
147
Chips
0
Play tight early? OMG, what a revelation!

that's the stragety for SnG and MTT, is to play tight early, only dif between SnG and MTT is in a MTT you don't loosen up until hours after it started.

Loose Aggressive Players (my guess for LAG) are easy to setup.

So easy to set them up. You know, raise pre- fold to them, next time do the same thing, let them try and bully you, and you shove, either they lose or they lose a massive part of their stack.

I absolutely love those players, I actually love playing against anyone with consistancy. I also love players that are smart enough to try and figure out a pattern of mine.

If you want to make chips try and play dif hands the same way. A perfect play against a said player.. is say you have AK... you may or may not raise pre, (usually I play as if I'm holding a mid pocket pair.) So when the K or A shows up the bully thinks its a scare card, you check like a pro, they bet usually pot... and you shove.

Next time you got Tens, raise pre, all low cards show up, check, again a perfect spot for a bully to try, and you shove.

Its all about making your opponent think he is smarter than you:withstupi
 
2

2huskys

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Total posts
84
Chips
0
Ok...from this post it sounds like you're making a profit. What are we trying to overcome exactly? Shove fold strategy at the bubble is fairly common strategy. Just try to make the correct moves. If you haven't I would google "sng bubble strategy". You will get tons of info about moves to make and when to make them. gl

I dunno? really if there is any better way i guess of minimizing suck outs? im not really shoving i only will depending on stack sizes etc and trying to isolate smaller stacks, its just constant suckouts, im very happy with my bubble play because Im nearly always in a very good postition to win it.

Today again I had ak cracked by aj all in, kk cracked by ATS all in , jj cracked on t83flop all in guy runner runnered with 89 to hit straight i hit set which hurt as well and several other aq AT etc cracked by lower aces.

Ya know its every single game i play and nearly ever single hand i get.Im amazed im still in profit after 65 sngs.Ino its still a small number and am aiming for 1k+ but seriously do use ever have suckouts this bad and consitently its been going on all week now and every other month really lost half my roll to it.
 
2

2huskys

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Total posts
84
Chips
0
Play tight early? OMG, what a revelation!

that's the stragety for SnG and MTT, is to play tight early, only dif between SnG and MTT is in a MTT you don't loosen up until hours after it started.

Loose Aggressive Players (my guess for LAG) are easy to setup.

So easy to set them up. You know, raise pre- fold to them, next time do the same thing, let them try and bully you, and you shove, either they lose or they lose a massive part of their stack.

I absolutely love those players, I actually love playing against anyone with consistancy. I also love players that are smart enough to try and figure out a pattern of mine.

If you want to make chips try and play dif hands the same way. A perfect play against a said player.. is say you have AK... you may or may not raise pre, (usually I play as if I'm holding a mid pocket pair.) So when the K or A shows up the bully thinks its a scare card, you check like a pro, they bet usually pot... and you shove.

Next time you got Tens, raise pre, all low cards show up, check, again a perfect spot for a bully to try, and you shove.

Its all about making your opponent think he is smarter than you:withstupi

The people Im talking about are nits they dont play like the "bullys"
 
TheKAAHK

TheKAAHK

CardsChat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Total posts
5,266
Awards
8
CA
Chips
832
I dunno? really if there is any better way i guess of minimizing suck outs? im not really shoving i only will depending on stack sizes etc and trying to isolate smaller stacks, its just constant suckouts, im very happy with my bubble play because Im nearly always in a very good postition to win it.

Today again I had ak cracked by aj all in, kk cracked by ATS all in , jj cracked on t83flop all in guy runner runnered with 89 to hit straight i hit set which hurt as well and several other aq AT etc cracked by lower aces.

Ya know its every single game i play and nearly ever single hand i get.Im amazed im still in profit after 65 sngs.Ino its still a small number and am aiming for 1k+ but seriously do use ever have suckouts this bad and consitently its been going on all week now and every other month really lost half my roll to it.


Yeah, it sucks, but shit happens. There is really nothing you can do about suckouts. Get it in good and hope for the best.

As far as consistent suckouts go, check out my blog, I posted just a few hands involving major suckouts. This happens all the time. Every game I play there is always one or two horrible suckouts against me. But on the other hand I suckout against many players alot too, so it evens out. Nothing you can do. Just play within your limits, play your best and keep your chin up.
 
doops

doops

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Total posts
669
Chips
0
I dunno? really if there is any better way i guess of minimizing suck outs? im not really shoving i only will depending on stack sizes etc and trying to isolate smaller stacks, its just constant suckouts, im very happy with my bubble play because Im nearly always in a very good postition to win it.

Today again I had ak cracked by aj all in, kk cracked by ATS all in , jj cracked on t83flop all in guy runner runnered with 89 to hit straight i hit set which hurt as well and several other aq AT etc cracked by lower aces.

Ya know its every single game i play and nearly ever single hand i get.Im amazed im still in profit after 65 sngs.Ino its still a small number and am aiming for 1k+ but seriously do use ever have suckouts this bad and consitently its been going on all week now and every other month really lost half my roll to it.


If you have a profit, you are doing fine.

Be very clear on this -- poker is a long-haul game. It's a game of skillfully carving out a slight edge over the vagaries of luck. It's NOT about short term results, or hand-by-hand results. It's about how you do over 100 SNGs or 1000 or 10,000. Thousand of hands, tens of thousands of situations. If you make the correct plays each time, the wins will give you that slight profit over the inevitable occasional suckouts.

Don't expect to win every hand in which you start out with the best cards. Don't expect to cash in every SNG or more than a small percentage of MTTs (the best players seldom cash in more than 15% of their MTTs -- but their cashes tend to be deep.) It just won't happen, no matter how well you play. There will be downswings. There will be days or weeks where you can't get ahead. Your goal is to make a profit, if you can, in the long run.
 
FreeRollWannabe

FreeRollWannabe

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Total posts
147
Chips
0
You know, to the above post, I would agree with you except: There are people whom do win in the short run, rather large amounts, rather quickly.

First thought off my head is this mega wealthy US citizen, started off in online poker and went into stock market. I saw his house on Cribs, he didn't want to be well known and he was a certified genius.

I would agree the average player has to grind out over 1000s of hands to eek out a profit. But there are some whom don't, whom just win.

Oh and short run decision making turns into long run profits, poker may be a game but it doesn't avoid the laws of economics.
 
dwolfg

dwolfg

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Total posts
583
Chips
0
2huskys, after reading multiple threads that you have started,it is safe to say that you are not as good as you think you are and you cannot be honest with yourself or others on the weaknesses in your game.
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,602
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
Bottom line > Get used to it!
If you're making good decisions, give yourself a pat on the back! SNG's & MTT play can be extremely frustrating at times. You know... (MTT) the hands like when you've re-raised a player who you've been wanting to target to play pots with, knowing they're likely to get it in bad... or they're way over aggro to the point of bein' real spewy.... you flop top set & lead out when they've checked to you.. they check-raise you & you get it in as a HUGE fav. & they runner runner you with some BS.... meanwhile they're spouting off in chat sayin', "I put you on AK!" < this shit happens often. "get used to it"

Dealing with the bs is another big part of the game..... a part that can take quite awhile to be ok with. (ok bein' where it's like water running off a ducks back... as in .. 'oh well.. f it.. fire up another').
Sometimes you'll run particularly bad. Get through it but expect it to happen again down the line... be it next week, next day, etc. It's not unusual to have some major downswings in SNG & MTT play.... & yet be an excellent player.

A handful more posts & you'll be able to get into some 'free' games with some 'real' competition ;)
 
L

Lofwyr

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Total posts
456
Chips
0
@OP: you seem concerned with nits on the bubble that are usually short stacked. I'm not all that familiar with STT play, but from what I understand that tight play is fairly correct (as a shorter stack). If you're complaining about short-stacked nits sucking out on you I can only assume you're speaking of spots where you have a sizeable chip stack. If that is the case you should probably have a wider range than you state in OP (A's, PP, whatever). If the nits play only their top10% they should be extremely exploitable and you could probably find many spots to open up ATC profitably.

As for suckouts...your dilemma is small potatoes. I've gone 100+ games losing the majority of my 80/20's, 60/40's etc. But then there are the streaks where I just win almost all of those and suckout many times in a row as well. That's just poker and variance at work. The SNGs are quite swingy and you either make your peace with it ASAP or have an aneurysm. The former is probably more profitable, though the latter is more fun to complain about.
 
spunka

spunka

Visionary
Bronze Level
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Total posts
884
Awards
2
Chips
67
Today again I had ak cracked by aj all in, kk cracked by ATS all in , jj cracked on t83flop all in guy runner runnered with 89 to hit straight i hit set which hurt as well and several other aq AT etc cracked by lower aces.

Yep you will get hands like that cracked, but it seems like we're missing some importent info here, do you shove ? or do you call ? and what kind of stacks are involved, and how far are you in the sng (blinds, players left) maybe put some of those hands in the Tournament Hand Analysis forum.
 
OzExorcist

OzExorcist

Broomcorn's uncle
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 6, 2007
Total posts
8,586
Awards
1
Chips
1
- If you're genuinely being sucked out on by genuine nits all the time then you're a nit yourself because that means you're waiting until you have a BETTER hand than them to get it in. If they really are nits that means you're playing a very tight range. The range you've described ("good" aces, 88+) is very tight, BTW. Especially if you're a "commanding chip leader" playing against nits.

- The beats you're describing are 100% standard, the sooner you realise that and get on with it the sooner your game will start getting better. 65 games is a tiny sample and I don't care what you say, you're definitely suffering from selective recall if you get sucked out on as much as you claim and you're still in profit. Either you don't really get sucked out on that much or you're forgetting all the times you suck out on other people. Simple as that.

- As has been noted above, planning to raise-fold when you're under 10BB is terrible advice. Shove or fold unless you've got a hand big enough that you're willing to call a shove and you think a smaller raise will induce one.

- Sorry but I just can't believe you "always" get a commanding chip lead and "normally win a lot". Selective recall FTL again.

- There's not necessarily anything wrong with playing a bit wider in the early stages if the game allows for it to be profitable. If you're at a table with eight nits then playing LAG early is a great strategy. Suggesting there is only one "optimal" strategy without making any kind of reference to the type of opponents you're facing is silly. Is playing tight early a strategy that works in a lot of low-stakes STTs? Sure, maybe it is. But don't be trapped into thinking it's the best strategy for every game.
 
loopmeister

loopmeister

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Total posts
332
Chips
0
Agreed but if your the big stack I dont believe this to be true as we all know the 2nd stack will wake up with AA or KK then your crippled and guess what your bubble boy.

If you're big stack and 2nd stack is also >>10BB then effective stacks are not 10BB and push-fold doesn't apply.
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,602
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
If you're big stack and 2nd stack is also >>10BB then effective stacks are not 10BB and push-fold doesn't apply.

It doesn't? You mean then if 2nd biggest stack opens its not common practise for CL to ship it? (or vice versa so that 2nd biggest stack isn't faced with a tough fold pre when they're holding QQ/JJ/AK/AQ).
 
Starting Hands - Poker Hand Nicknames Rankings - Poker Hands
Top