SNG hand question

medeiros13

medeiros13

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So, I reintroduced myself the other day to members and shared that I've been away from poker and online poker for about 6 years. I'll do my best to share the situation that happened to see what the "new age" thought process is.

6 player SNG, top 3 get paid same amount and we are down to 5 players. Chip leader min raises UTG two folds and then the SB (who is the short stack) goes all in over the top...I'm in the BB with A 10 suited. I felt the call for me was worth it because I put he SB on a small to mid pocket pair and with pot odds and my stack....i thought it was worth the call. The chip leader comes over the top and tries to put me all in. I obviously fold. Result was SB had QQ and chip leader had 99 and SB doubled up. An ace hit the flop so I would've tripled up but more importantly knock another player out.

I said in chat to the CL that was a dumb move. Another player asked me why so I explained that if he calls the all in...we check it down and he gets eliminated. That started quite a debate amoungst the table and the majority disagreed with my thoughts. So, am I wrong in my thoughts or was it bad play by the others. I'll admit that I did put myself in a position to be squeezed but I was really thinking about eliminating a player.
 
Propane Goat

Propane Goat

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In these double-or-nothing type games I tend to avoid confrontations with the big stack unless I have something really strong pre-flop, so I agree with the fold here. Your stack size would help. That said, I don't think I would have called the short stack's all-in here, given that the big stack still had the opportunity to act after you.

Most if not all online sites now use a continuous shuffle, so the runout of the board isn't known by anyone or anything until the river card is selected and dealt, and any analysis after the fact of "what would have happened" is a waste of time. Any change in the timing of people clicking during the hand would have changed the cards that were drawn, meaning that the Ace would had probably never have been dealt.

This is likely why people were disagreeing with you, the big stack also has no duty to check it down after the flop if he feels that he has the best hand OTF but is vulnerable. For example, if the flop comes 875 with two diamonds, he's probably going to put you all in on the flop before overcards start hitting the board.

Even the "rabbit hunt" is a waste of time in online poker now, because of the continuous shuffle.
 
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WiZZiM

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yep +1 to the propane goat.

The biggest thing here is that you don't close the action once you call, so you have to play a slightly stronger range of hands to account for this. Also since you are going up against someone who can knock you out, suddenly calling doesn't really have that much appeal.

lastly, you actually gain EV from the CL and the small stack having a confrontation, and all you have to do is fold, the CL will call and they will go to a race. Knocking out players is important obviously, but this isn't the bubble, and we don't make money directly here by calling this off. if this is the bubble and we can knock him out to make it ITM, then calling has way more merit as we can make immediate profit by calling and helping knock him out.
 
medeiros13

medeiros13

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Thank you for the thoughts! This is why I post things like this...because both responders gave me a POV that I hadn't considered.
 
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Checking down is not an option as the player is not only interested in eliminating the short stack but also he'll be trying to eliminate you. Since there was an ace on the table, were you going to check it down to river? The CL wouldn't want to take that risk because the hand doesn't get over till the flop. The side pot is as much important because sometimes the side pot is even larger than the main pot.
 
medeiros13

medeiros13

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Checking down is not an option as the player is not only interested in eliminating the short stack but also he'll be trying to eliminate you. Since there was an ace on the table, were you going to check it down to river? The CL wouldn't want to take that risk because the hand doesn't get over till the flop. The side pot is as much important because sometimes the side pot is even larger than the main pot.

Yes, I would've checked down to the river. My attitude has always been go 2v1 to knock another player out and get closer to getting paid. This is why I post these scenarios. I'm finding out that not everyone shares my POV and that's totally cool. I don't believe A10 is good enough for me to be confident that I should drive the other player out.
 
Propane Goat

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Another thing I wanted to note is that the general strategy is much, much different in double-or-nothing games than it is in the standard SnG. The primary reason is that you have to play these like a satellite where your number one goal is to survive, rather than accumulating all of the chips on the table.

I used to play quite a few of these on Carbon before they changed the structure and the traffic dropped way off, and I can't count the number of times I've seen scenarios on the bubble like two big stacks getting it all in, or a medium stack chasing draws against a bigger stack with an extremely short stack at the table ready to bust.

My general strategy (these were 10 handed, 5 paid) was to gauge the level of aggressiveness during the first level or two. If the table was full of rocks, then I would start raising with a wider range to steal blinds. On the other end of the spectrum, I've cashed in some games without playing a single hand, because the table was full of donks splashing chips around.

If you're also a rock at a table full of rocks, you will often find yourself in a situation where the bubble is still a long ways off but almost everybody has only a few blinds left, including you. What often happens here is that people start playing chicken, and you will see an all-in on every hand. If you're card dead, you're left with choosing between gambling with a crap hand or getting blinded out.
 
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